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eddie1 Regular user UK 133 Posts 
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It’s absolutely possible with Eugene’s script.
“Imagine you’re holding 4 queens, imagine I reach in and remove two of the same colour, in your imagination did I remove the red or black queens?” “Red.” “Okay so that leaves you with the black queens.” “I want the reds” Very rare but to say it’s impossible is just not true. |
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Tom Cutts Staff Northern CA 5896 Posts
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The ease of execution and vividness of the reveals will be perfect for 99% of the people on this board. However, professionals will not be as keen to the fact that the outcomes are very different aesthetically. This is not an effect for a working strolling magician. But as I said, those people are an infinitesimal fraction of the magic marketplace. The rest will lap this up!
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Noobmaster69 New user 63 Posts
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Quote:
On May 23, 2022, eddie1 wrote: If you stick Max's script, you won't say it like that. And even then there's an easy out in this particular situation. |
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eddie1 Regular user UK 133 Posts
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That’s why I was responding to Gaz. Either way, the point is, a no equivoke option is completely foolproof and probably more shocking than whatever out you’re referencing.
Some people just prefer to say “One of these queens is face up, which do you think it is?” and boom there it is simple as that. Obviously more routining is needed than just that but only one question for the spectator which I would say feels more fair. I like this release for that reason. |
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Ceierry Inner circle Europe 1478 Posts
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Quote:
On May 23, 2022, Tom Cutts wrote: Hi. Why do you say this is not an effect for strolling magicians? Because I will use it in restaurants situation. |
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rowdymagi5 Inner circle Virginia 3361 Posts
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Quote:
On May 23, 2022, Noobmaster69 wrote: I am curious, what out can you possibly use if the spectator says they want a particular card, or in this case, color? I have seen this happen once. A spectator said, no, I want the Queen of Spades. And this happened as they were holding the cards with the red queens as the reveal cards. |
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Gaz Lawrence Inner circle 5810 Posts
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On May 24, 2022, eddie1 wrote: That’s not how you say it and it’s not even how Eugene said it or personally taught me. The method I was taught uses a rubber band and the first question is not the one you mention and you then give them the chance to freely change their mind. So I don’t know what you are talking about to be honest as you remove 2 Queens from the rubber banded cards they hold. Once they have chosen you then give them a free choice to change their minds and they truly can. If you are saying you want to go through a whole effect and let them change their minds about 20 times you are performing for the wrong people imo. A clear cut choice is given with the chance to change their minds at two different stages (it don’t get any fairer) is perfect for me and I have never ever been asked for it to keep being repeatedly changed back again and again that’s just bizarre and I just would say to the others in the group. “You see what happens when you drink on an empty head “ Best wishes Gaz 😊 |
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Fire Starter Inner circle 4612 Posts
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Quote:
On May 24, 2022, Gaz Lawrence wrote: Same as Gaz, to many Ifs and Buts on this Thread,perform it right and none the wiser are folk, I've never been caught out,presented correctly it fries, I like FATE by John Carey, I also have a red Queen and black Spade card I use and they get one or the other from the 4 I say, I will get this one to add to it, I have Eugene's as well,all ways in my set. |
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eddie1 Regular user UK 133 Posts
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On May 24, 2022, Gaz Lawrence wrote: Eugene Burger’s performance of B’Wave on YouTube is the script I directly copied. I agree letting them change their mind over and over is silly but that’s not at all what was mentioned. If the rubber band handling eliminates the possibility of them changing their mind, that’s great. Never seen it performed that way before. |
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Tom Cutts Staff Northern CA 5896 Posts
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On May 24, 2022, Ceierry wrote: For exactly the reason I stated in my post. The possible endings are aesthetically very different such that anyone seeing the two different endings will know something is tricky with those cards. |
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Noobmaster69 New user 63 Posts
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On May 24, 2022, rowdymagi5 wrote: To be honest: When I wrote that answer I thought of something I believed to be an easy out, but now I really don't remember what that could have been. I guess I was wrong and it wasn't as obvious and easy as I thought... :/ |
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Gaz Lawrence Inner circle 5810 Posts
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Well I didn’t copy Eugenes YouTube clip in fact I have never seen it.
I have sat down with the legend and there is never a compromise and never a chance when I perform it. Remember they have come to see you never the other way round and you need to show that confidence in performing as I always do. Best wishes Gaz 😊 |
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eddie1 Regular user UK 133 Posts
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My idea of confidence is being able to say “Absolutely, you can change your mind if you want.” with no hesitation whatsoever and my prediction still being dead on. Sure, if you can prevent them even getting the chance to change their mind, that’s great too, but I prefer tricks where they can. That’s why I’d rather perform this.
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videoman Inner circle 5886 Posts
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On May 24, 2022, Tom Cutts wrote: Shouldn’t matter. This is magician thinking IMO. The selected card is still different from the rest. You’re assuming that specs would even remember a previous orientation. And even if they did I suppose you could make an argument that it may even make the cards seem LESS “tricky” because you seem free to show them any way you want. |
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Fire Starter Inner circle 4612 Posts
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Quote:
On May 25, 2022, videoman wrote: Totally agree,I have never been called out and IF it is different from someone following me about that;s good,how do they know I put in a DIFFERENT card on other table presentations, so even better with the out come. |
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videoman Inner circle 5886 Posts
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There are a couple things that I’m not crazy about with this version.
First, is that although this can be considered self-working, it is also kind of knacky. You are concealing extra cards and I don’t find they are always perfectly concealed. Jordan addresses a possible reason for this and perhaps using his suggestion might help alleviate the problem but I think it may just have more to do with the core method. Second, the cards are in a very particular order. When first trying to remove them from the very tight envelope my set got out of order. Jordan never really tries to properly explain the correct order and simply says that because the tell tale indicators would not show up well on camera he won’t even try. But he could have used a Sharpie to darken these areas on a demo set for the purpose of explanation. Since it’s still not really clear to me what order the cards should be in, when they get out of order, which they do because I am experimenting with different handlings, displays, etc. its a pain to get them back in order. Still trial and error at this point but granted that I’ve been too lazy to really sit down and figure out the exact order. Probably because I feel I shouldn’t have to, it should have been clearly explained. The method of the original b’wave kind of gave you a built-in presentation along with a multi-phase routine. Whereas it’s very easy with this version to make it a very quick (almost throwaway) effect because the build up in selecting a queen is not necessary. Plus the original had 3 phases, the magic of using 3. This version eliminates at least one of the phases which at first may sound like a fair trade-off…you get to eliminate any E process at the cost of losing one phase. But I personally much prefer using the E as part of the presentation and then having reveal #1, then reveal #2, then finally the big boffo reveal #3 (all the other cards are blank! What???) Fourth, the cards will surely wear out much more quickly than the original. So I do applaud Jordan for putting in the work to devise this version. I can see how it would be a very fun, challenging, and ultimately satisfying puzzle to solve. So I kind of feel it came about more to satisfy curiosity than because a real problem existed. And admittedly I was curious to see what he had come up with. But AFA what version would I actually use? Well no offense to Jordan because I do give him an E for effort, but I would absolutely reach for b’wave before I would take this one out in the real world. |
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Gaz Lawrence Inner circle 5810 Posts
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On May 25, 2022, eddie1 wrote: I say exactly that with authority knowing that they can change their minds. They sometimes do which does not weaken the effect in any way at all. Unless you are getting right to the end of a whole routine and letting a spectator say I want the AS they may as well say the 4 of clubs at that point as your performance would have been that poor imo. Remember you are wagging their tails they are excited to see you, never ever the other way around. That’s isn’t even imho that’s a fact, or at least should be unless you are just mucking about with friends who have seen the same trick 100 times. Gaz 😊 |
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Tom Cutts Staff Northern CA 5896 Posts
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Quote:
On May 25, 2022, videoman wrote: Yeah, no. At their aesthetic core a card with a red back sticking out from blue bunch is much different from a card sticking out from a bunch of blank cards. And yes, people do recognize the difference. If one thinks otherwise, it’s not their audience who is being oblivious. Can that be handled by smart presentation? Yes, but it steals some of the energy of a presentation to have to make up for some part of a method. That would be like trying to write lyrics to cover up a weakness in the music of a song. You just fix the music and get on with it. |
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Fire Starter Inner circle 4612 Posts
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Quote:
On May 25, 2022, Tom Cutts wrote: Well of course you are entitled to your opinion. I personally like the fact I am using a RED or Blue and the rest are Blank, it bolsters the fact I knew their choice and was confident enough in high lighting it by performing it that way,Horses for courses.Been doing it like others this way for years and yes I do perform at very large Functions so it;s in my working set,as it works for me. |
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videoman Inner circle 5886 Posts
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Quote:
On May 25, 2022, Tom Cutts wrote: Oh, well, I didn't know we were talking about the aesthetic core. that's different! But seriously, there have been numerous studies done to gauge the accuracy and reliability of eye witnesses. It's surprising how wrong people's memories of very recent events can be. Of course magicians take advantage of this all the time, creating a memory of an effect that can be much different from what actually occurred. But regardless, whether they remember the exact orientation of the cards or not, my main disagreement with you Tom is that I don't believe they are going to automatically suspect trick cards simply because they see a slightly different display. But I do agree that it's probably best not to knowingly repeat this effect to too many people, but I don't think a few here and there should be a problem. Quote:
On May 25, 2022, Tom Cutts wrote: Love this common Café dig that tries to be clever. So if anyone disagrees with you they are just ignorant of the truth is what you're saying I guess. No one else is entitled to have an opinion? |
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Posted: May 23, 2022 07:04 pm 
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