I have a set of gimmicked coins, with a copper shell and a copper/silver two-sided piece (20 centavos/half dollar). The front of the copper shell has a picture of Queen Elizabeth and the inscription "Elizabeth II Dei Gratia Regina FD." I can't remember what type of coin the copper shell is supposed to be. Can anybody tell me?

Also, do you know of any booklets, etc., that describe routines to do with this set.

Thanks.

Usually a Penney.

The updated Bobo's should have a few suggestions.

My Favorite trick of all time uses this gimmick:

Trio in Three by Gary Kurtz

To me its the perfect trick, it's the one I use most often too (with a few of my own touches to it).

I have 15-20 or so Handleings For it! From the Standerd
Change routine ( one where thay all change to china coins at the end) To A stand up no table 3 coins across to coins trough the table to matrix And Portable hole! It's A vary useful gimmick!


Best David Neighbors
The Coinjurer

Haha Dag...I knew that...now, David, where do we find that routine? Or any of them for that matter.

Oh yeah, Trio in Three can be learned in Gary Kurtz's video Let's Get Flourious.

I have seen Dave perform his routine, and yes the trick is really a solid effect. Unfortunately, I don't have the gimmick, but instead I have the Copper/Silver/Brass set. If there is anyone out there who knows how to perform Trio in Three with a copper/silver/brass set, PM me, I can't come up with a good method due to the hole in the Chinese coin.

Also, I know Paul Green has a routine with the 2 copper silver set on his "In the Trenches" DVD.

The above mentioned resources are excellent. Another version to consider is Harry Allen's Comedy Bits & Magic Routines Volume 1 from L&L publishing. Harry's is a very standard, basic rendering, but as well very entertaining.

As I've told you Marty, (perhaps, maybe I forgot) Reed McClintock has a version with the c/s/b set. BUT, I feel that it lessens the original effect (but I haven't seen Reed's so he may have changed the presentation appropriately to the gimmick).

In Gary's presentation, he calls the silver coin the "odd man out" and continues this throughout the trick. This explains for the half dollar always changing places with the two copper coins, and for it assembling under the cards first. It also gives reason for the two copper coins to return to the cards and not the silver one.

Now, if the c/s/b set is used, this takes away from the presentation because it is no longer a trick with the half dollar being the odd man out, but the half dollar being the key coin. The chinese or centavo could easily be the coin that everything revolves around, but it doesn't (that is if you are using Gary's handling). But, I have heard that in Reed's routine you can choose which phase happens to which coin, so that may actually be an improvement (again I haven't seen the trick). I thought about getting a custom coin set for this trick so that all 3 coins are different (a gold and silver 10 pesos peice instead of the copper 20 centavos) but I didn't because I am happy with the idea of having the trick involve an odd man. Does anyone know where Reed's routine is published exactly?

It has been mentionned: Paul Grenn has a routine in "in the trenches" which is worth seing.

David,

Reed's routine appears in one of the early "Knucklebusters" manuscripts, I'm pretty sure it's volume 2 or 3. It's always nice when the "workaround" (i.e. using the C/S/B rather than the 2C/S) actually improves the effect. It's even better when the (IMHO) improvement adds an interactive element to the piece. Reed's does both.

Hi Justin,
Ok here we go! A tabled coins Across, a set down coins through the table, 3 coin/card assemblys,And a portable hole routine are in my book Coinjurering (1978). A change routine where they all vanish at the end, and one where they all change to china coins at the end are in my book Sound Routines (The book on the rattle gimmick)(2000). I have 2 Routines with it that use a coin box. In The Professional Coin Box Magic of David Neighbors (2002). There are 2 routines, a stand-up no table coins across, and a coins to pocket in my latest set of notes! (The ones I had at the COINvention) (2003)
And a stand-up Coins through the Table, and a purse frame routine in my Las Vegas notes!(1997)! You can find most of this stuff at my web site at http://www.stumagic.com (My link is at the botton of the opening page) I Am not sure if the newest set is up yet or not! So if you can't find anything and you want it P.M. me. Thanks man!

Best,
David Neighbors
The Coinjurer

FYI Curtis (and David) It's Knuckle Busters 2.

Curtis, the point you make is exactly what I've thought and mentioned a few times. It's also the reason that I've mentioned in the past that, although I can physically do CSB routines with 2C/1S, I choose to use the CSB gaff instead. I feel that it makes for a more seemless, interactive, and magical routine.

There's also some nice variations possible using the CSB gaff, a half dollar, and a Sun & Moon coin as well

However, simply using a CSB set and a regular half can produce some mind blowing effects all by themselves... as can 2C / 1S, but the implementations are, for me anyway, very different.

Best,

Mike

I've always felt that the CSB is more for magicians than for laymen. Although I know laymen are thoroughly entertained by a well performed CSB routine, they are just as entertained with a 2c/1S routine. With an effect like "Trio" I believe the tight scripting and moving the action along is key. Allowing the spectator's to decide the action weakens the effect.

I only have two of Reed's products a DVD and his first booklet. I was sorely disappointed with both and have since stopped looking at his handlings for effects. Everything I've seen of his is "overhandled" IMO.

David,
Thank you very much! I'm on my way to the site now. How is it that this website seems stocked with coin legends? IT's so awesome to me and I'll keep listening. Thanks again,

Stuper1

The copper shell you have is of a British pre-decimal penny (not penney) last minted in 1967 and no longer legal tender. Hope this helps.

peter

RE: "I only have two of Reed's products a DVD and his first booklet. I was sorely disappointed with both and have since stopped looking at his handlings for effects. Everything I've seen of his is "overhandled" IMO."

I find Reed's work to be more complex than my own, but I've never thought of it as "overhandled". My primary goal when coming up with new effects is to use the simplest techniques and fewest moves possible to provide the audience with the most entertaining and amazing illusions possible. IMHO, magic is about the relationship between the audience and the magician, not showing off my sleight of hand skills.

However, I don't find Reed to over complicate his routines at all. He's comfortable with the moves he uses and the progression of the routine, and it always shows through. He tends to use a few sleights that are a bit more complex and difficult than I like to use in performance (like his use of the muscle pass in extreme close-up situations, or his ending flourishes), but for him it flows as easily as my methods do for me. I have all of Reeds booklets, and a couple vids with him included, and I've never felt that his routines use any uneccessary or over-the-top movements or patter. For me it would look overhandled, but for him it looks natural.

Or maybe this is just a case of one tattoo junky standing up for another

Best,

Mike

Thanks, Mike. Then is KB3 is the one with all the C/S/B routines that don't involve the C/S/B gaff?



Interesting. In your opinion, what is it about effects "like Trio" that require you to move the action along, to the exclusion of all else, even the audience? I can't imagine an objective that justifies an "I don't have time to talk" attitude. Rather, I have found that the presentational challenge of effects "like Trio" is that they require nothing more of the audience besides sitting quietly. In the end, they are left with the impression that a lot of stuff happened, all of no particular importance. In close up work especially, I have found it's better to give the audience a more active role.

If allowing the spectators to participate "slows down the action" then maybe the action ought to slow down. What's more important, entertainment, or getting through the routine? Remember Dai Vernon's advice about a "deliberate" pace being the most effective.

To put it another way, a real magician is able to do anything. It is therefore "in character" to "take requests". For this reason, one of the strongest illusions we can create is the illusion of freedom of choice. Didn't Michael Ammar propose this as the "Law of Impromptu Miracles" or something like that?

So I am interested in what justifies placing the performer's needs before those of his audience. What makes you suggest this?

Regarding your opinion that Reed's routines are "overhandled" I am inclined to point out that if you don't agree with the objectives of a given routine (i.e. to allow freedom of choice in "Trio in Three") then it will seem "overhandled" to you, since the moves will appear to be pointless.

Other than that, it's your opinion, and you're welcome to it.

Curtis, ummm... my mistake man. KB 2 uses the CSB gaff, KB 3 uses the 2C / 1S (International Hanging, Fantasy, & Dissolve). I must have been sniffing the dittos earlier today (now there's an old reference! Anyone else remember ditto copies?)

Please tell Reed the next time you speak to him that I'm sorry to have posted erroneous info pertaining to his K-busters series. I'll practice my muscle pass for a full hour tonight in repentance... I can feel the burn already...

Mistakenly Yours,

Mike

Mike, hold off on the muscle passes and Hail Marys. I think we're saying the same thing. The routine in KB2 is the one the David's looking for, and that's what you said.

I was just asking about KB3 to confirm my impression about the way Reed organized the material. I recalled that there are three "international" routines in KB3, and they all use the same gaff because they are meant to go together. If I'm not mistaken, they all use the c/s gaff only, nothing as elaborate as the 2C/1S set.

So, thanks again for you help, and accuracy.

cK