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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » Presenting the second phase of Chicago Opener (4 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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qkeli
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Gary Kurtz is unique…. And his stuff is worth looking at, even his mentalisme stuff under his other pseudo…. Too bad he don’t perform anymore from what I understood
qkeli
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Scratch from Chad long is my referred handling of CO as the spectator really interacts to make the magic happen
Bob G
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I agree, Nick, lots of interesting ideas here. This trick seems to generate all kinds of fruitful discussion.


I'm curious to hear, from people who have performed this trick frequently, how often does the spectator actually *ask* to inspect the deck? If the answer is, not very often, then it may not be worth worrying about. And of course, the more general question is, how do you respond when someone asks to inspect your cards?


I read the credit-card force in CC, as you suggested, Francois. Sneaky! I now understand what you were saying: there's no duplicate because the card was never in the deck in the first place!
Bob G
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P. S. I just reread your post on p. 2, Kalix, where you partly answered my question: you, at least, have *never* been asked to surrender the deck. This may be partly because of your lovely, whimsical patter, and partly your acting ability. I'm good at whimsical, but not so much at acting.


Still interested to hear how often others have been asked, "Can I see the deck?"
Bob G
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To Fonda57: I found a download of Carpenter's "Impulsive Premonition," which you recommended:

https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/card-m......onition/ .


I watched the trailer and was utterly confused. What was the effect? And how is it applicable to Chicago Opener? It *sounded* like a color change was happening, but I didn't *see* one. (And I'm not color-blind. Smile )

Thanks,

Bob
Francois Lagrange
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The back colors where subtly different; did you miss it?
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Nikodemus
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Wow! How could they be so stupid in the choice of decks for that effect? Maybe the difference was clear in real life- but not in the video.
Nikodemus
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Hi Bob,
On the Café, questions like "how often do spectators ask to see the deck" are often discussed. It is indeed an interesting question.
But I like the idea of designing a handling to pro-actively eliminate possible explanations. I believe I got this idea from Designing Miracles by Darwin Ortiz. If you can design a version of CO where the card disappears from the deck, that seems to me to be much more powerful. I think this could also compensate for some doubt over the force.

Alternatively (as previously discussed, I think) one can adopt a slightly different effect/storyline. EG. In Chicago Surprise by Whit Haydn, in the the second phase there is no pretence of looking for a second odd card in the deck. He just takes the selection and waves it over the isolated odd card, and it changes to match. Hence there is nothing to hide in the deck.
Nikodemus
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I was very unimpressed by Impulsive Premonition. It seemed "clever" to me, rather than "impossible", because the transformation happens in the magician's hands. What makes phase 2 of CO so amazing is the fact that the odd card is definitely NOT handled by the magician.
Bob G
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Yah, the color difference must have been awfully subtle, because I'm very sensitive to colors.


So many good ideas here -- Follow Daryl's m. in trouble presentation while being breezy and confident; Mike's thought that after enough performances you gain a fluidity and confidence that carries the trick; follow Francois and make the 1st selection disappear, and make a point of it being gone, Kalix's delightful silliness; and now Nick's idea of following Whit Haydn. I'll look at how Haydn does it again and see if it could work for the standard version of CO. And then Al Leech's original version: in phase I, turn the selection's back red by blowing on it with your warm breath, and in phase II, say that if you blow harder you can make the *face* change.


¡Ay Ay Ay! My head is spinning!
Nikodemus
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Quote:
On Aug 7, 2022, Bob G wrote:
Yah, the color difference must have been awfully subtle, because I'm very sensitive to colors.

follow Francois and make the 1st selection disappear, and make a point of it being gone,



Hi Bob
I assumed the previous discussion of making the selection disappear was referring to the second selection. Because phase 2 is when a selection is returned to the deck and then fails to change colour.

This does raise the question of what to do about the first selection. If you spread the deck to show selection 2 is missing, do you want selection 1 to be there? My answer would be that it is ok, and you make it part of the plot. "Hmmm, the card hasn't changed this time. What was the card? The 10 of Hearts? Let's have a look... well it's definitely not here. But, look - here's the 4 of Spades. So if the 4 of Spades is back in the deck, what's the card over there...?"
On the other hand, maybe Francois would remove both of them? If you have the skill, why not?

I am also very interested to hear how MARTY's version plays out. I'm sure he said he developed his solution specifically to deal with this situation.
Bob G
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Hi Nick,

I'm getting confused about 1st/2nd selection. Marty kindly sent me his version, and I'm planning to learn it while I let my mind settle about the many ideas on this thread. Maybe Marty would be willing to share his handling with you. It looks like fun.

But now that you've pointed out my confusion, I have to ask you: In Hadyn's version, which selection does he wave over the red card? -- 1st or 2nd? --- Well, no need to answer, I'll look it up.


Bob
Nikodemus
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Hi Bob,
If you think it through, I'm sure you already know the answer. In phase 1, the red card is discovered in the deck, shown apparently to match the selection, then placed aside. So the odd card is not set aside until the END of this phase. Therefore the impossible transformation (whether by "waving" or magician-in-trouble or any other presentation) must be the second phase.
Elementary, my dear Watson!
Francois Lagrange
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Regarding Impulsive Premonition, leaving aside the choice of back colors, what strikes me as improbable is that the magician hands over a 'red' card to the spectator and fans the deck to show only blue-backed cards. I don't believe for a minute that the spectator would not turn the card they're currently holding over to check that the back is indeed red, only because it would be the natural reaction to do just that.
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Bob G
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Francois: Sounds like I can forget about Premonition, unless Fonda57 comes back and explains what he had in mind.


Nick: My Dear Holmes! How childishly simple it seems once it's explained. Smile


I still plan to post a video of CO, but I'm still working on making some changes so that I can use a thick card for the DL. A year or so ago I thought about using the Touch Force, as you suggested, Nick, which I think would unify the two phases much as the Hindu Shuffle does in the original version. I have to work out the details.


Now, about the Touch Force: This and some other forces require a preliminary swing cut, which I've always imagined would look suspicious. In Royal Road or Card College, I forget which, the magi instead overhand shuffles half the deck, then throws the remaining half onto the already-shuffled cards. Somehow in doing the latter the magi creates a pinky break between the two halves, thereby getting into the same position as if s/he had swing-cut. But I'm missing something. How do you catch the pinky break after (or as?) you throw the remaining half on top of the half that's already been shuffled off?

Bob
Bob G
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P. S. A clarification on my Touch-Force question: I *can* do what I described, but, after shuffling off half the deck, I have to move that half into left-hand dealing position before I drop the other half on to the already-shuffled half while catching a break between the two. It feels very awkward. Maybe it's just a question or practice, or maybe there's a more efficient way to create the break.
Bob G
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P. P. S. And what I just described looks rather like a cut, so it kind of obviates the point of doing the shuffle in the first place.
Bob G
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Nick,

This is a nice touch:


"This does raise the question of what to do about the first selection. If you spread the deck to show selection 2 is missing, do you want selection 1 to be there? My answer would be that it is ok, and you make it part of the plot. 'Hmmm, the card hasn't changed this time. What was the card? The 10 of Hearts? Let's have a look... well it's definitely not here. But, look - here's the 4 of Spades. So if the 4 of Spades is back in the deck, what's the card over there...?' "


I think you can only use it, though, if you've already secretly removed the duplicate of the red-backed card, right?
Nikodemus
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I've just re-read this thread. There are some great suggestions.
The ones that stand out most to me are -

1. Strengthen the first phase by using SF to aid the DL. You want the spectators to have no doubt that the stranger card is the first selection. This is necessary for the second phase to have its full potential impact when the card in full view changes. For me, this is a "quick win".

2. Make the second selection disappear before revealing the stranger card has "become" that card. This would go a long way to eliminating the actual phase 2 method (which I am not going to state explicitly here). If you have the relevant skills this would be quite straightforward by sleight of hand. (I don't yet have the confidence myself!). The alternative to use some sort of gaff. (SF again? Joker force?)

3. Use a more convincing selection procedure than the Hindu Shuffle. Pop Haydn is the one who has gone furthest with this in Chicago Surprise.

4. Allow the spectator to shuffle before phase 2. For me, this simple idea is a real game changer. Francois said that after he started doing this, no one asked to see the deck any more. So he presumably no longer needs to make the selection disappear. These two things are not strictly connected - but clearly the shuffle eliminates all possible foul play in the mind of the spectator. This approach could of course be used in many other contexts. Also a crimp could be used, in an impromptu setting.
[Marty's version also allows the spectator to shuffle the deck, but uses a different approach to accomplish this.]
Given that CO requires an extra (odd) card anyway, I definitely plan to add the use of a locator card and shuffle.
Nikodemus
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Hi Bob,
Re Touch Force - you don't need to worry about holding a break. Remember in this case, it's a short card.
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