I’ll photocopy anything you need.

Thank you. I'll dig around.

Thanks. I'll look for it.

Hold up, are you saying you aided/advised Dan Kennedy? Were you instrumental in any of his endeavors? I just want to be sure I'm understanding you right. Or did you mean Danny in this thread?

If the former, I'm interested in hearing more. And if Dan was asked about this, would he confirm it?

I’m well beyond help. I thought this much was clear.

I don't come in this section much. It's not clear to me. If he helped Dan Kennedy, I'd be running with that all day.

So he meant you?

Ah, I see. It wasn't you. Then I'm officially impressed by Mindpro.

Couple things. First of all I was making a joke. It seems you may have taken it otherwise. I’m sorry.

Second of all Mindoro has helped a lot more people than most think. It is what makes the constant whining and arguing and feet stomping so frustrating around here. We could get to so much more so much sooner if it just stopped. This very thread is a classic example. It happens almost literally every thread. And I’m guessing it will keep happening because nobody who does these things ever learns.

But again I was making a joke, not lashing out at you. Sorry.

Oh no, I know you weren't. I just have huge respect for Dan Kennedy. He's a legend. So I'm kinda stunned/excited at Mindpro's connection.

Yes, this place can be off-putting.

Absolutely! Thanks Nathan. Yes, I have helped launch and worked many well-known brands, companies and personalities helping to not only make them a success but become household names and tops in their industry in the business community including Robert Kiyosaki (Rich Dad, Poor Dad), Orville Redenbacher, Debbie Fields (Mrs. Fields), Wally "Famous" Amos, Suze Ormon (who had me on her website for a decade or maybe two), and more. They all have used my system, structure, techniques, strategies, and resources for success. I worked with Dan on his No BS content back in the early days. I did try to contact Dan when he was very sick several years ago but never received a response. I wish him only the bast in health and success.

Remember, I have been doing this for over 35 years and long before the internet, social media, and all the tech things that many think are so necessary today (SEO, Instagram, Facebook, Facebook ads, Google, Google ads, and so on.) Today, many are led to believe automation and hands-off technology are the key. They're not. Look at so many magicians who only market through social media, have an inquiry or booking form on their poorly designed, monkey see monkey do website, and use autoresponders so they never have to speak to the client or if so, only minimally. All of these people and many more are proof of this. Their success was built without any of these things, just a good structure, system, and taking action and implementation non-stop until reaching (and in many cases) exceeding their goals. Sure, at a point social media, the internet and online world all can enhance and play a key to progressing your brand or celebrity, but not until one is at a certain point with so many other necessary things in place first.

Back in the day many of these celebrities and clients I worked with did not want it known they had a coach, consultant or mentor assisting them. I remember members of some of the top sporting teams of their day (MJ's Bulls, the '85 Ditka Bears, the Yanks and others) thought it would work against their playing contracts if it was known they were working with me and preparing for their post-playing careers by working with a coach/consultant/advisor. It may have been seen as a sign of weakness or lack of knowledge or intelligence to others. This is how many real coaches and consultants worked - behind the scenes. Not seeking the fame or attention. It was known within the industry and that was enough, but never intended for the public. Back in those days (as it still is today) it was important to keep the public and the private separate and to understand why. But in today's world now everyone claims to be a coach or guru and they want it plastered all over the internet and falsely believe "social proof" is required to be legitimate, where in reality that is something a newer guru created as his unique niche and now it is believed to be gospel by those that ignorantly believe "if I can't find it on the internet, or they don't have a social media following, they aren't real or cannot be a success." Today most have it so wrong.

This is why it is soooo frustrating to constantly be derailed as we have seen in this thread because some of us here here really do want to roll up our sleeves and get into the business of entertainment business. We want to assist others. We want to get into the meat and potatoes and share components of the same structure and system that has made those mentioned above and so many others successful. Members here should realize what a resource is available to them which is why I was asked to contribute here in the first place. So often we can't even get to what we're trying to get to because of the disruptions.

I don't utilize these names in much of my promotion, my track record of success, and the title I was given as "America's live entertainment expert" by a leading industry magazine over twenty years ago, and the fact that I have help make more six-figure performers than anyone else in America. While these are nice and they do adorn the walls in my office, I do not need to use those to communicate my experience, knowledge, and proprietary content.

I have posted here (and a handful of other forums), for free, pretty much on a daily basis for over 15 years. If one can't tell that I speak from knowledge and experience (two completely different things) and from 8 key positions within the entertainment industry (aside from ones I have done outside the entertainment community in the larger business community) then you you aren't listening, paying attention, or are missing the boat completely. I tell people don't let the crap that exists here cloud the stellar information myself, Danny, and a few others with actual real-world, working experience regularly offered here. Tricky Business is the most valuable forum on the Café to be a successful magical performer, period.

Opinions and experience are not all the same. Regardless of what some want to think, members here or in any entertainment group are at differing levels which is a good thing. It is wrong to think we are all equal as it is an insult to those that do this on a daily basis and have committed their life's work to this industry and helping others.

I have been very fortunate that many of the things I have created and pioneered have transcended beyond just the entertainment industry and into the outside business world. They are different and to succeed in either these differences are crucial to be realized. One thing that seems to be so hard around here is that I always tell everyone I work with that we need to begin and to operate from a position of complete honesty with ourselves - no egos, no prejudices, no agendas, no preconceived ideas or beliefs, no "prove me wrong" mentalities, no "I think my way is better," no judgement, no BS, and complete open-mindedness. Only then can the actual work, change, and progress begin.

I need to visit the forum more often if we have such experts here

Well, I did some digging. "Book Yourself Solid" is in fact available significantly cheaply.
"Marketing Your Services" is available on amazon at a slightly higher price.
Seth Godin was in fact easy to look up.

Poor man that I am, I will look through the public library first, then I will purchase the books.

Ed, you can get the Marketing Your Services book for four dollars with free shipping on ebay.

But yes I would always check with the public library first. I too look for the cheapest.

Also, let me share with you (and others seeking advice) a couple of common sense but often overlooked thoughts when reading books and listening to the experts on marketing/business advice. One book or one person probably can’t answer all your questions. It takes a lifetime to learn all you need to know especially when learning marketing/sales/business. It's not so much that people in general change, but times do change and we must learn to do things in a different way than we did yesterday. I say soak up all the info you can because the more you know the more you can grow. We all need choices to find a good fit for us. It's been said that the one thing most successful people have in common is they are good listeners. Also let us not forget the ole saying, “Readers are Leaders”

BUT and this is really important, when searching for answers it's easy to start thinking to yourself, “I need to know as much as this person or that person before I get started.” I’ve seen it happen many times before where the ‘start’ never happens. The student waits not understanding that it’s simply the start that stops most people. Things will never be perfect and you will never know it all. And a true expert will be one of the first to come out and say, I don’t know it all.

Keep reading but most of all keep moving.

Tom

Is there harm in searching out multiple resources during a discovery or gathering phase?

I would think multiple sources would be needed to fully understand what you may want to pursue. I know I tend to do some research before I commit to anything. That was why I asked in another thread about SEO, not that I wanted to implement it. Rather it was too get a base knowledge before I decided to how to proceed.

There is no harm in research. There is harm in suffering from “analysis paralysis”.

Pick a direction and move with purpose in that direction. The constant seeking of information becomes looking for information to suit your opinion instead of your need.

Research is different than engaging in multiple resources from different creators/authors. I discuss the research process in several of my materials. The problem in doing so is most don't truly know what they're looking for or what really need. This can take them down some very off-shoot and disruptive paths. Same for recommendations from others as much like the example I gave above their interests, beliefs and needs are most likely different than yours. People must stop doing this only on a surface level and start thinking in terms of and dealing with specifics. What they truly need and what applies most directly to them. Nothing that really needs adapting, but something created for their exact needs. This must be realized before any discovery or research in the process.

This is also why I repeatedly say things need to be done the right sequential order or you end up really working against yourself.

I think it is a false belief that to fully understand what you want will come from multiple sources. I have never seem this happen, ever. You will more than likely get conflicting or even opposing information with may holes and missing pieces. Plus, one size does not fit all.

This was the whole reason I decided to start writing and creating resources so all aspects were covered with no missing pieces in complete offerings in one system. This is also why I was encouraged by some of my mentors which were industry giants to go really really deep to fully understand this to come up with my own proprietary content that was complete, worked in perfect tandem with the other components, that would be unavailable anywhere else, from an industry position. This had not been done and to the best of my knowledge hasn't again since.

You must remember, this is not "how I did it" information, which is a huge difference. This is also the power of a full structured system presented in the right and proper sequential order.

A few years ago I offered a very low-priced short-term coaching opportunity to Café members, actually Tricky Business members only. I think it was like a 30 day coaching mentoring program. I can't tell you how almost all that took advantage of it immediately in the first week or two saw the difference and uniqueness of my content. Eyes opened, most learned more in 4 weeks than they had in 10, 15, 20 years or more - directly as it applied to their business. They realized what was missing, what they were doing wrong, and most of all why things they were doing were not working, and why. Unfortunately, I lost money on the offer, but that wasn't the purpose as it was to help members here that really needed it and were willing to be open-minded, honest, and put it all out there in order for personal and professional advancement.

The real problem is most will never find that one true resource that is life and business-changing because they don't know where to look, what to truly look for, they don't invest in themselves and their success, or believe they don't need to or can figure it out themselves.

Like I've said most of the magic community is the blind leading the blind and monkey see, monkey do. They listen to poor or bad advice for the wrong reasons.

“How I did it” is just not as useful as most assume.

If I tried to teach how I work it woods not work for others. It simply is not going to translate.

Most of the How I did it stuff has little understanding of why. This is of course the more important question.

Yes, I wouldn’t certainly think one, and especially a beginner, would need some base knowledge before deciding on one person to follow. Believe it or not, there are a lot of fake experts out there that only have one thing in mind, to get your money.

Tom

I can't believe this is still going.

In another attempt to keep things on topic, (of which I'm starting to forget)
tom brought up something earlier, "how can a beginner know who to listen to"

The danger being a beginner might not know the difference between a
professional and a "quack" (I'm not targeting that statement specifically to
anyone in this thread or elsewhere) but "quacks" and cons are out there.

To me the folks a to listen to are professional bookers, in that They've
seen more acts than anyone should have to.

And they don't usually care about you specifically, which leads to honesty.
getting face to face with one is a different matter.

But I would like to hear other folks thoughts on what someone should
look for in this regard.

Fedora,

I agree that there are a lot of cons out there claiming to be experts. It’s very hard to spot the real ones. The one thing that I personally look for, and I have worked with many over the years, is an expert doesn’t tell you they're an expert. That’s the first sign that they're not. You will just know when you meet one. Con artist has also been known to use ‘shills’ and you have to be careful listening to those too.

It’s important to understand that the real expert will rarely seek you out first, you will find them. And in my opinion, it should always be your choice and your choice alone who you label as an expert.

But if I could go back to the beginning of this thread for a minute, the OP wasn’t looking for an ‘expert’ he simply wanted to know where to find some good basic books on marketing and business. And it's my belief that everyone and especially a beginner should have a basic understanding of the subject before looking for an expert. For example, I hear people all the time saying, I know nothing about taxes, I will just hire someone to do all that for me. Well, the truth is, a business person had better have a ‘basic’ understanding of how taxes work or they could get in trouble in a hurry.

I say one should always be in a position where you can ‘Trust but Verify’ as they say. That's why you need that basic stuff first.

Tom