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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Nothing up my sleeve... » » The crimp pien chen (6 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

vinsmagic
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A blast from the past a move I call the crimp pie n chien
I use it fOR a transpo ,, THISMOVE MANY APPLICTIONS

https://youtu.be/Izb8EM3gORI
VINNY
Come check out my magic.

http://www.vinnymarini.com
vinsmagic
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WHAT NO INPUT U GUYS SUCK BOOD OR BAD I Wt it know if you like or dislike
Come check out my magic.

http://www.vinnymarini.com
tonsofquestions
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Vinny, what are you looking for from us here?
There was less than a 24 hour time between the original post and your expressing frustration. I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't check the Café constantly, specially if I have a lot of work and/or family obligations at any given time.

It's also a video from more than 11 years ago, that has been posted - by you - no less than 4 times over the years. Here are just two, both of which got a fair amount of love and appreciation:
https://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/view......573624#0
https://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/view......start=20

I respect and admire all of your contributions. But lashing out and insulting doesn't look good on anyone.

If I can offer a suggestion, I think you might have more success if you posted all of these in a single thread, (like MB does) to have continued conversation instead of starting a new one each time for external video links.
I also think it might go over better if you used CAPS less often.
vinsmagic
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Tons, then you for your input ......
my only purpose to allow others who may never have seen my crimping technique and may want to explore it.
as for the caps ur right I'm at terrible typing no excuse lol.
and last I cant perform my effects any more, due to arthritis. but I can teach my dvd may be out very soon on the crimp

take care vinny
Come check out my magic.

http://www.vinnymarini.com
tonsofquestions
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Ooh, a DVD? Nice. I'm definitely looking forward to that. Keep us posted!

I think anyone who's been around here a while has come across your technique. I love the idea of continuing to promote it to more folks, I just think having a dedicated space (thread) for it would encourage more conversation and information for folks just discovering it.
Wravyn
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I agree tons. I too would like to be kept up to date on that

Vinny, I am sorry to hear about arthritis preventing you from performing yet I am thankful that you take the time to share your knowledge.It is appreciated.
Ray J
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Vinny, you are and have always been passionate about magic and very generous with sharing your creations. Personally I don't mind you reposting things, and for good reason. First of all, I was unaware of your work on what you call "Crimp Palm", but now I am. Sure, you could have just updated an older thread to bump the topic, but then you'd have folks complaining about resurrecting an old thread. You can't please everyone!

Also, I hope we move past the issue of using all caps when typing a post. It doesn't bother me, and I'm sure it doesn't bother most.

Now, getting to the palm itself, your video was very nice and probably fools some magicians so you know laypeople have no chance. Good work.

But I have seen that palm used by other magicians over the years and at least one of them, Jimmy Buffaloe, a fellow St. Louisan, referred to it as "Hook Thumb Palm". I saw him lecture in the 1970s and he used it in at least two routines that I remember. He did not take any credit for invention other than how he used it to accomplish his purpose.

Jimmy had several items published in 'Modern Coin Magic' and other places. In addition to lecture notes, he wrote a book, published by Dan Garrett called 'Buffaloed - The Magic of Jim Buffaloe' which contained tons of coin magic as well as magic with other props.
It's never crowded on the extra mile....
funsway
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Quote:
On Sep 9, 2022, Tortuga wrote:

But I have seen that palm used by other magicians over the years


Yet, the Crimp position is a bit different from those various published uses of the Thumb Crotch as I explained in the "wave of hand" ebook years ago.

The small distinction of where the coin edge lies with respect to the crease of the thumb makes huge difference.
Consider that the Crimp is NOT a palming position, but a way of holding and masking a coin for an instant release.

Those watching a video or a cursory glance at a photo may miss the distinction and have poor results.
I did at first, allowing the coin to stick in the crease and finally contacted Vinnie for help.
Once I got away from "Finger Crotch palm" bias I accomplished amazing things even with crippled fingers.

Hopefully his new DVD will stress the importance of the easy release positioning.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst

eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com
vinsmagic
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Funsway thank you for that explanation . my crimping technique is not in any books. any think that one can do with a classic or finger palm can be done with the crimp palm

also it is easy to get in out out of the crimp, and into any other palm
vinny
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http://www.vinnymarini.com
vinsmagic
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There is noting written in any books what and how I use this palm the thumb crotch "crimp palm"
that I created. period
Come check out my magic.

http://www.vinnymarini.com
tonsofquestions
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Didn't Funsway just say he wrote a book (with your permission, I imagine) about some of the information about how it is used?

Though I confess I'm not clear what the difference between a "palming position' and "a way of holding + masking for instant release" is. That's sure how I'd describe most of the palms - finger palm, classic palm, back palm (maybe), thumb palm, etc. (Yes, not all. Some like Tenkai and deep back clip - neither of which are technically called a "palm" - are not as fast to get out of.)
funsway
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Just an eBook to get history and ideas down in writing. I had planned another four related eBooks
that might have resulted in a hardcopy one eventually. General lack of interest put a crimp in that idea.

I did create a special addition as a flyer that Vinny could pass out at lectures.

I am sure Vinny meant to reference major works that others point to with similar "thumb crotch" handlings.
I also offer "Crimp Roll" as an alternative handling in some of my other eBooks with attention to its uniqueness.

One of my "Full On" production techniques uses the Crimp because of the instant release factor.

But, I agree that some distinction should be made between "palming methods" for long-term hiding of a coin(s),
and methods for transitory concealment or support of sleight.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst

eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com
rannie
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Thank you for always sharing Vinny!

Cheers from Manila!
"If you can't teach an old dog new tricks, trick the old dog to learn."

-Rannie Raymundo-
aka The Boss
aka The Manila Enforcer

www.rannieraymundo.com
www.tapm.proboards80.net
tonsofquestions
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I guess I'm still not clear on the distinction you're making between "long term" and "transitory" concealment.
Can't anything long-term be used short-term, and anything that's (typically) short term, be maintained for longer term holding?
funsway
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Quote:
On Oct 10, 2022, tonsofquestions wrote:
I guess I'm still not clear on the distinction you're making between "long term" and "transitory" concealment.
Can't anything long-term be used short-term, and anything that's (typically) short term, be maintained for longer term holding?



If you have a stack of coins in hand for Miser's Dream or other production, the palming method is one of storage with the audience eventually realizing the fact of the coin(s).

If you have a concealed C/S gaff that you 'switch-in' for a spectator selected coin, the audience never knows of the fact of the coin, i.e. they only know of one with no hint that anything unusual has occurred.

When using a Fake Transfer it is essential for both Holding and Passing hand to be held in a manner consistent with what the audience believes to be the fact of the coin's location.

If I show both hands to be empty while concealing a coin/ball there is no fact of existence for the audience to consider.

Each of these uses sleights are generally called "palming" but have different parameters for choosing method, technique, load/ditch and timing (and more).

So, for me in my effect descriptions, it is essential to focus on the observer's perceptions of what is occurring as much as the techniques of possible method.

I have seen too many magicians fall in love with a particular sleight and corrupt a routine to fit - with little consideration for congruency or expectations.

Ideally, one looks at the end result and works backwards to "best method" for an effect, and a variety of Palming Methods may be employed in combination.
Distinctions of long-term, idle, transitory, asynchronous reveal, count verification, etc. all important to me - but maybe not to anyone else.
......

My Crimp Roll technique, for example, is a 'palming method' in that a coin is concealed in the hand.
But the coin is transitory from Crimp, Malini, Liwag and Palmer Clip as necessary to show all parts of the hand to be empty
depending on other actions of that hand consistent with effect flow. The intent is not "hide a a coin,"
but to support the notion that the coin is still in the other, closed hand/container (Preemptive Doubt)

The posture of that hand as if still holding a coin is a Palming Method too. Since my crippled fingers take on strange shapes sometimes,
I must work on having them look the same whether or not a coin is within. This is more important than "favorite method."
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst

eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com
tonsofquestions
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I definitely agree with using the right technique for a specific routine.
But I still don't see how there's a meaningful difference between "support the notion that the coin is not in this hand" vs "conceal a coin".

In both examples (misers dream and a hidden C/S) the goal is to suggest there are not any extra coins.

But we're also digressing far from the original topic here, so we should probably leave it at that, or start a different thread.
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