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Mike Wild Inner circle NY, PA, TX, MA, FL, NC 1290 Posts |
RE: "Hi WildStone,
I am not missing the point. If you are seeing the usefulness of this prop, the majority here are not. Just check the whole thread again. A quick reply to your summary: 1: Not true. The first line of the ad says "The ingenious design is based on an Annemann idea..." and that is enough credit. 2: Are you buying what Sankey is doing on the demo, or an item that can be used in various effects. 3: That is their own problem and that happens with all products. They will eventually grow out of that phase. Although I feel what you said is a sweeping statement." Hi Niva. I'll reply to you replying to my summary: 1. The first line in the ad, and the last couple of lines from the demo are very different. Watch the vid again if you missed the end. A quote from demo vid. "... I came up with the idea of a spectator finding a freely selected card in a face down deck years ago..." 2. The product is marketed as an effect, as it has been several times previously by others. You're not getting a clever gimmick, you're getting an office supply shopping list. 3. That is, as you said, there own problem. It's also your problem, my problem, and every other magician's problem who has to spend the first 10 minutes of a set dispelling the negative stereotypes that many people have pertaining to magic from watching youngsters perform effects that make little to no sense, have little entertainment value, and leave a spectator no alternative but try to think back on how "it's done". "hooray! I found my card!" I wonder how he did it" It must have been when I wrote the name of the card on the sticky note that was stuck to the deck..." There's no other place for them to go because this particular routine is weak in several areas. And finally... I know how this works for the same reason every other magician knows how it works. Jay's effects, good or bad, are based on simplicity, and always have been. Even the best of them are not hard for magicians to figure out by watching. That's not a bad thing, since we're all magicians, we have a unique perspective. As Jay himself said, "...we think in in terms of angles and progressions...". Non-magicians typically do not, so therefore some things that are obvious to us are not to them. I again use Killer Key as an example. There are few effects that are more obvious to magician, but completely fry spectators than that one. I find this conversation to be extremely redundant. Although I respect your opinions, I'm not going to agree with you. It is, however, good to get different perspectives on these things. Best, Mike |
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Jim Pace V.I.P. Portland Oregon 556 Posts |
Magic chris wrote:
Jim pace put out an effect last year and it was similar to a Sankey effect and Sankey freaked out. He couldn't get hold of Jim and sent out a global e-mail telling everyone to write Jim and Boycott him until he called Jay. In my defense...the trick that I put out was All Stuck Up and I have had it out for 18 years. That is when I purchased the manufacturing rights to his trick from Jay, from his lecture notes. Jay did not mention this so I assume that he had forgotten. We did talk and work things out I told him that I will continue selling All Stuck Up and he can sell his version with a differnt name. I have ran into a few people who still feel like I ripped him off, I cannot stop this Jay and I know the truth that is what matters. Jim
"The drum that beats the loudest is always the most hollow."
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Close.Up.Dave Inner circle Behind you! 2956 Posts |
Quote:
On 2004-07-03 18:54, meilechl wrote: I'll agree and disagree with that. Many people do release tricks, books or videos that aren't very good. But I don't think anyone has released as much useless material as Jay Sankey. I do like Jay and he has many cool things that I use regularly, but honestly he is just releasing too much bad material at once. He's now even turned to stealing concepts, even from himself! Jay just released something called HOLY MOLY! on Penguin, recently when I was at the Conclave Convention I saw the guy from Elmwood magic doing the same trick but with a Key and a washer instead of 2 washers (as it is done in HOLY MOLY!). I asked him if that was that new Sankey trick and he replied with a yes/no answer. Jay sold the rights to Elmwood for the same trick as HOLY MOLY! but under a different name. Now, since elmwood has the rights he just changed a key to another washer and gave it the name HOLY MOLY! I really was just not amazed by Private Property because this "new" effect Jay has released (after years of thought?) because it's the same trick with a different object. Sure the trick is good, but there's already the same trick for sale and you don't even have to involve cards. |
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lewis Regular user 199 Posts |
Wow...you've all managed to create another argument.
magic! Seriously though, please say you have better things to do than constantly argue on a forum about a magic trick. |
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bg Veteran user Indy 313 Posts |
In any business if you start producing crap it will eventually catch up with you and this forum is the result.
I like some of Jays stuff {I'm currently learning Leaving Home and love it) but I can't think of another magi putting out the quantity of material, including books and dvd's, that jay has in the past couple of years. You simply can't prduce that much in sop little time and maintain quality. It seems to me that Jay believes his popularity in the magic community is at it's peak and he's cashing in. Will it hurt him in the long run? Not if he makes enough money. Brian |
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bekralik Inner circle Canada 1349 Posts |
So much talk on one trick. Don't like it, don't buy it; that's all that needs to be said. It sounds more like people are disappointed in Sankey because he was once a sort of hero or because sometimes he puts out great effects, and then sometimes junk, and the constant roller coaster of satisfaction and disappointment is too much to handle.
I will say that this looks better than Just Think, which I wish I never bought. I think it says it's a more reliable gimmick or something to that effect. Brian |
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lewis Regular user 199 Posts |
Quote:
On 2004-07-04 10:17, bekralik wrote: My point exactly.. in the words of amazing jonathan...'it's a trick!' |
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niva Inner circle Malta (Europe) 2970 Posts |
My point was and still is, this is not an effect. It's a utility device that can be used in many effects. It's like saying, "I will not buy any thumb tips because I don't like the cigarette vanish I saw Mr.X do on a short demo on the net." That really cracks me up, because we all know how useful a TT is and in how many ways it can be used.
But if you don't like it, that's ok. I will respect that. But two things I really hate are, bashing something that no one has even received yet and insulting people. The later surely did not help any magicians on this forum. Finally, for the record, if you watch the demos for both Key Deposit and Holy Moly, you will see that Jay has taken the latter to the next level. By using another coin it allows for further options and phases. There is nothing new here. It uses normal coin sleights. But it's the idea of using these sleights for a moving hole effect, and I like this plot.
Yours,
Ivan |
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James Watkins Elite user 412 Posts |
"Airtight is one of the best card tricks ever, as are many of his tricks. The man might be annoying and repetitive but he's a genius. Let's not bash the man because of one (or even a few) not so good products."
I agree with that. I love his In a Flash and perform is regularly. Everyone has their own opinions, but I guess that is good for Jay because controvery sells. Keep it real, James Watkins |
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Close.Up.Dave Inner circle Behind you! 2956 Posts |
Niva, I love the plot of holy moly, but that's not the point. Even if he did manage to add more phases to it he still ripped off a trick he created at an earlier time.
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cpatchett Veteran user My current prediction is that I have 337 Posts |
I own this effect and I also own a copy of "Annemann's Mental Bargain Effects," in which "Annemann's Mental Masterpiece" was published. In the instructions to "Private Property" Sankey justifies the marketing of his effect with the following statement:
"Theodore Annemann originally had the idea for gimmicking a card case with carbon paper, but his design required the finicky and labor-intensive task of manually peeling thin layers of cardboard from inside the case! After much thought, I developed this much easier method as well as created the handling for the routine." I have no idea who told Sankey this, but he has obviously never read "Annemann's Mental Masterpiece" or he would know that Annemann required no such peeling but rather prescribed the exact same method for gimmicking the card case that Sankey uses for "Private Property". (With one very minor difference in the source for what is used to conceal the gimmick.) In other words, "Private Property" is not based on Annemann, it IS Annemann. Craig
Magician: Someone willing to spend $15 to learn how to make $1 disappear.
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Eddini_81976 Inner circle 2183 Posts |
I like this (if in fact it does work, and isn't crap like "Just Think") effect. I've been trying to find this utility device, and if it works, I'd buy it. On Max Maven's Parlour Mentalism tape there is a trick on it using this principle, that I love, and I've been wanting to do. I couldn't make the box though. I bought "Just Think", and felt ripped off. I admit I didn't like his card force making the person choose the same card over again. Yes I also agree this is not new by any means, BUT if you aren't good at making things, this is a dream come true. I think having the person write on the box is logical too, unless you're standing next to a table. His reasoning which isn't new either makes sense. "I'm having you write it so you don't forget it, change your mind, or lie". It makes sense to me. I guess it's a matter of taste, Ed, (Eddini).
"Treat Others As You'd Want To Be Treated" - Jesus Christ
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gerard1973 Special user Michigan, U.S.A. 688 Posts |
I like Jay Sankey and you have to admit that he is an inovative magician. Anyway, magicians have been using each other's tricks for many years. You never use other magician's tricks in your show? Everybody does. Sankey is NOT stealing this idea. As niva mentioned several times in his above posts, Jay Sankey does credit Annemann with the invention of this effect.
If you watch any of Jay Sankey's DVD's in which he uses other magician's effects, Jay does credit other magicians effects to them. What Sankey does a most of the time of is to change the handling of the effect to make it easier to perform. Gerard
"Confusion is not magic."
Dai Vernon |
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Cameron Francis V.I.P. 7025 Posts |
By the way, people don't rip off ideas from themselves. Ideas constantly evolve. Holy Moly isn't a rip off of one of his earlier effects. It's an improvement.
MOMENT'S NOTICE LIVE 3 - Six impromptu card tricks! Out now! http://cameronfrancismagic.com/moments-notice-live-3.html
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The Mac Inner circle 1982 Posts |
I never found anything of jay Sankey's remotely interesting.
Whats all the hoo haa about this guy? Anyway.. PAUL Harris RULES. |
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gerard1973 Special user Michigan, U.S.A. 688 Posts |
MacGyver(south Africa):
I also like Paul Harris. Jay Sankey's "Private Property" is a great effect. Jay Sankey has created many magic effects. Many consider him to be one of the most innovative magicians around. Sankey has also improved many known routines in order to make their effect or handling easier and better. He's a magic genius. Sankey's magic is easy to do and is very visual. The audience's reaction to his tricks are great. You really need to see Jay Sankey performing magic live to understand. Play around with some of his routines and then perform them on a live audience to see why people are crazy about Sankey's magic. Gerard
"Confusion is not magic."
Dai Vernon |
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Cameron Francis V.I.P. 7025 Posts |
To each his own.
However, I have to tell you, I saw Jay lecture last month and he blew a room full of magicians away with material most of them were familiar with. I have always been a big fan. But seeing him do it in person, seeing how well the stuff plays live (in a room full of magicians, no less), made me an even bigger fan.
MOMENT'S NOTICE LIVE 3 - Six impromptu card tricks! Out now! http://cameronfrancismagic.com/moments-notice-live-3.html
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dave_matkin Inner circle 4522 Posts |
Quote:
On Jul 1, 2004, Dave Forrest wrote: I'm loving that Dave Forest's profile is still live and has the Cubism link in his signature! So funny!!! And oh so not funny!!!! |
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dduane Special user Bridgewater, MA 784 Posts |
I'm posting this because he is offering Private Property again! I noticed that Paperclipped did not get mentioned as one of Jay's best. As a card trick it is good, but as a mentalist tool it is genius and kills. So I still like Jay.
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