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dirtyfoucault Special user UK 700 Posts 
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Great news about Sudo.
Regarding the Weber Vs Petty issue: why don't we agree as a community that in future it is the responsibility of any creator who wants to have authorship of a method or effect respected to register said effect's publication with the Conjuring Archive? There could then be no argument over publication and "who came first". Failure to register with the CA would effectively your work is not recognised by the community. With such a diverse body of work across so many obscure publications, it is bordering on impossible for any creator to be aware of *every* significant precursor to any particular creation. Or we could just continue fighting like children... |
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JDobbs New user 69 Posts
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Perhaps the various magic organizations can get together to create a standard for origination or improvement upon someone else plot or method. Your thoughts? Perhaps a discussion thread on this specific topic should be opened elsewhere here.
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JDobbs New user 69 Posts
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Quote:
On Feb 6, 2023, dirtyfoucault wrote: I have only one issue is CA is not entirely inclusive of all. However, I don’t think it is viable unless the details of the tricks and method of the trick is published on there as well. This will further ensure the record is properly established. CA doesn’t host the nesseccary documents to properly accomplish this. |
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dirtyfoucault Special user UK 700 Posts
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Agree it's a very imperfect system. I'm not a developer, but would imagine it would be easier to tweak the current Conjuring Archive, rather than start completely afresh.
Actually surprised how few modern creators do register their releases on there. For example, Craig Petty himself currently only has 9 entries! Magic crediting is a mess and with The Oracle Max Maven gone it feels like we're going to need a better system... |
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influentialist Loyal user 226 Posts
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While I'm not against the CA being the system of record I suspect all that would happen is the discussions/conversations/arguments would just change direction to the definitions of "new" and "unique".
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TonyBrand Special user Chicago, IL 508 Posts
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I like the idea of centralizing the crediting repository and CA does seem like the logical choice, but influentialist raises a valid concern.
It's almost like there needs to be some sort of crediting council, committee, etc. established that sorts out these kinds of issues. As others have mentioned, Max informally served that role when he was with us. |
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da5id Loyal user Dublin, Ireland 268 Posts
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Crediting isn’t the issue here. Bad people are the issue.
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MrFinix New user 28 Posts
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Craig has probably deleted his latest video on the subject. Hopefully things will calm down a bit now.
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dirtyfoucault Special user UK 700 Posts
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Quote:
On Feb 6, 2023, TonyBrand wrote: That would be the ideal, I just wonder whether it would mean a huge administrative burden for a few people. I think a small step forward would be to get everybody registering their own effects (new and old). It's mad to me that Craig's stuff isn't even up there (mainly). The back-catalogues of many of the modern creators I searched for are only very patchily represented. And the referencing is quite confusing. I'm not sure who is best placed to help improve things but I'd certainly be happy to help |
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JDobbs New user 69 Posts
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Quote:
On Feb 6, 2023, da5id wrote: You are correct, but it is an underlying issue here that had Craig seen it was previously created, then his approach to this would have been different and might not have created the project in the first place. As Craig said, he looked there and no mention of this method, so publishing of the creation is vital so others know what has and has not been previously created. |
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korttihai_82 Inner circle Finland 1880 Posts
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I don't want to take part of the debate itself but most people don't realize that
Conjuring Archive isn't complete database on everything that has been published in magic. It is database that contains information that is compiled by small handful of individuals who do it for their love or the art. They are not paid or even given books to add to the database. They do it on their own money and on their own time. Because of this you cant simply assume that if you don't find something from there, it doesn't excist in magic literature... This is why you always also have to ask around from other people who know more than you. Juha-Matti |
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MrFinix New user 28 Posts
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Quote:
On Feb 6, 2023, korttihai_82 wrote: Thanks for this important point! It is exactly like that. |
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Doctor D Special user 563 Posts
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On Feb 6, 2023, korttihai_82 wrote: Very much this. CA absolutely is a valuable resource when it comes to research and crediting, but it should A stop, not the FINAL stop. Now, I did not get the impression Craig interpreted it as the final stop. However, I will argue that the limited nature of RS can be more easily mitigated with something like CA than would be applicable with a generally available book. |
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BrainMagos Special user 553 Posts
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I always tremendously respected Michael Weber as a unique thinker and creator but I always felt there was something about his ego (that our community is guilty of having over-inflated to god-like status) that greatly diminished his likability as a magician and person. This situation unfortunately not only confirms my feelings but exacerbates the fact we need as a community to be more careful in the future as to who we idolize. And for the record, this is not a post defending Craig Petty who I am not that familiar with (only have one of his old coin dvds).
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dirtyfoucault Special user UK 700 Posts
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I get CA is currently incomplete and is a labour of love for a handful of individuals (who we should all appreciate greatly for their time and dedication). But can we not strive to improve that situation to mitigate disputes like this? If not with CA, then with an alternative solution. A piecemeal approach to managing the community's references is only ever going to lead to more problems.
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User101 Regular user 177 Posts
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All this fuss over a trick that is barley good enough to be included in kids magic set. Really?!
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CardGuyMike Special user 790 Posts
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Quote:
On Feb 6, 2023, User101 wrote: This is part of the problem. The trick isn't even out yet, so it's hard to make any informed judgment of it. But it was deemed worthy by Michael Murray, Peter Nardi, Simon Lipkin, Lloyd Barnes, Javier Fuenmayor, Mark Lemon and Peter Turner, all of whom contributed to it. But forget all of that, it's barley (sic) good enough to be included in a kids magic set? Really? |
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MrFinix New user 28 Posts
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First everyone participates in the drama, then it gets boring, then it gets annoying and then the next "big thing" comes along. This is the usual course of such discussions...
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SlipperySnake Loyal user 245 Posts
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Quote:
On Feb 6, 2023, korttihai_82 wrote: I have never visited the Conjuring Archive before. The first three effects I did a search for did not show up. One of which has had literally millions of views on various social media platforms. While it looks like a nice resource, I would say it is far from being the end all for researching what is out there. |
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dirtyfoucault Special user UK 700 Posts
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Says a lot about nutritional standards when even kids magic sets are packed full of barley
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Posted: Feb 6, 2023 04:25 pm 
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