On Feb 3, 2023, leipzisch wrote:
Oh this is wonderful.

Before the mods take this thread down, please let's all bask in the beautiful drama.

On Feb 3, 2023, jbadman wrote:

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On Feb 3, 2023, Mac_Stone wrote:

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On Feb 3, 2023, dirtyfoucault wrote:
Haha, so nobody outside the clique is allowed to see the write-up. But everybody outside the clique is expected to be familiar with it in intimate detail. Gotcha.

What a positively Kafkaesque world you inhabit.

Sileeni is right. You've completely misunderstood the point. But you have identified yourself as a rather biased member of the clique. So hardly without bias.

It’s not my place to share with you someone else’s effect. That should go without saying but I guess I‘ll spell it out for you.

Further, why should I share something with you for free which I paid for?

What a world you inhabit.…

I think he’s just asking what the publication is called and where we might either get it or see details about. No one is asking for the content itself, for free.

But you’re just alluding to something no one else knows about, so without any kind of reference it’s hard to make it relevant here.

Can you please provide such references?

On Feb 3, 2023, Al Straker wrote:

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On Feb 3, 2023, leipzisch wrote:
Oh this is wonderful.

Before the mods take this thread down, please let's all bask in the beautiful drama.

Please....you have to stop....you keep making me spit my coffee!!

Just remember if anyone calls you a racist, tell them it's only a pigment of their imagination. :o)

On Feb 3, 2023, Al Straker wrote:

Quote:

On Feb 3, 2023, leipzisch wrote:
Oh this is wonderful.

Before the mods take this thread down, please let's all bask in the beautiful drama.

Please....you have to stop....you keep making me spit my coffee!!

Just remember if anyone calls you a racist, tell them it's only a pigment of their imagination. :o)

On Feb 3, 2023, jbadman wrote:
To be honest I have no idea what “The Works” is or who Psience are. Is this still available at all, or is it another “Real Secrets” scenario?

Certainly Google reveals nothing of any note, so I’m still completely in the dark. Without proper references it’s kind of irrelevant as any kind of information source in this context.

On Feb 3, 2023, Mac_Stone wrote:

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On Feb 3, 2023, jbadman wrote:
To be honest I have no idea what “The Works” is or who Psience are. Is this still available at all, or is it another “Real Secrets” scenario?

Certainly Google reveals nothing of any note, so I’m still completely in the dark. Without proper references it’s kind of irrelevant as any kind of information source in this context.

As I explained, all the relevant information is available in the VERY long thread on Genii forum.…

On Feb 3, 2023, sileeni wrote:

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On Feb 3, 2023, Mac_Stone wrote:

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On Feb 3, 2023, sileeni wrote:
Unless it's some giant secret, simply say where it was published in 2016. Name the publication. Then we can go and find it.

I'll wait...

Published in The Works a subscription based newsletter issued through Psience. It’s not a secret, pages and pages have been discussed about it on Genii forum.

There are many things in this world that you do not know, that does not mean they do not exist. Children learn object permanence around eight months of age.…

So then, using your infinite wisdom; which of the routines, tricks and ideas (of which there are 6 hours worth spanning various creators) within the EDCeipt project are taught in The Works?

On Feb 3, 2023, flunkie42 wrote:

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On Feb 3, 2023, Mac_Stone wrote:

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On Feb 3, 2023, jbadman wrote:
To be honest I have no idea what “The Works” is or who Psience are. Is this still available at all, or is it another “Real Secrets” scenario?

Certainly Google reveals nothing of any note, so I’m still completely in the dark. Without proper references it’s kind of irrelevant as any kind of information source in this context.

As I explained, all the relevant information is available in the VERY long thread on Genii forum.…

Is there a link? (I might have missed it.)

On Feb 3, 2023, sileeni wrote:

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On Feb 3, 2023, Mac_Stone wrote:

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On Feb 3, 2023, sileeni wrote:
Unless it's some giant secret, simply say where it was published in 2016. Name the publication. Then we can go and find it.

I'll wait...

Published in The Works a subscription based newsletter issued through Psience. It’s not a secret, pages and pages have been discussed about it on Genii forum.

There are many things in this world that you do not know, that does not mean they do not exist. Children learn object permanence around eight months of age.…

So then, using your infinite wisdom; which of the routines, tricks and ideas (of which there are 6 hours worth spanning various creators) within the EDCeipt project are taught in The Works?

On Feb 3, 2023, AutarchicFlux wrote:
Well, I started this thread with no idea who Monchell Mingler was, and I shall go forward making sure I continue to not know who he is. I propose we all ring in the new tradition of always referring to "newguy" Mike Mongchell in such a way that his name is forgotten, buried, and erased from magic history. Not that it ever *was* part of magic history.

Craig - your name will be remembered and spoken of fondly for generations to come, I'm sure.

On Feb 3, 2023, sileeni wrote:

Is there a link? (I might have missed it.)

On Feb 3, 2023, flunkie42 wrote:

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On Feb 3, 2023, Mac_Stone wrote:

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On Feb 3, 2023, jbadman wrote:
To be honest I have no idea what “The Works” is or who Psience are. Is this still available at all, or is it another “Real Secrets” scenario?

Certainly Google reveals nothing of any note, so I’m still completely in the dark. Without proper references it’s kind of irrelevant as any kind of information source in this context.

As I explained, all the relevant information is available in the VERY long thread on Genii forum.…

Its against the rules to link to another forum, google it.

Is there a link? (I might have missed it.)

On Feb 3, 2023, Mac_Stone wrote:

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On Feb 3, 2023, flunkie42 wrote:

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On Feb 3, 2023, Mac_Stone wrote:

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On Feb 3, 2023, jbadman wrote:
To be honest I have no idea what “The Works” is or who Psience are. Is this still available at all, or is it another “Real Secrets” scenario?

Certainly Google reveals nothing of any note, so I’m still completely in the dark. Without proper references it’s kind of irrelevant as any kind of information source in this context.

As I explained, all the relevant information is available in the VERY long thread on Genii forum.…


Is there a link? (I might have missed it.)

On Feb 3, 2023, Mac_Stone wrote:

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On Feb 3, 2023, sileeni wrote:

Is there a link? (I might have missed it.)

I believe Mac_Stone tried to share a link but he just ended up posting "How to open a PDF" as a Facebook status to his grandkids by accident.

It's against the rules here to link to another forum. I can speak on my own behalf thank you. Funny to hear jokes from someone that doesn't seem to know how google works.

On Feb 3, 2023, leipzisch wrote:

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On Feb 3, 2023, Mark_Chandaue wrote:

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On Feb 3, 2023, leipzisch wrote:
I followed the Red debacle fairly closely, back when.

The one thing that Craig never seems to admit is that he KNEW he was copying Bob Farmer's trick.

Craig had shared a list of his favourite card effects several years before releasing Red. And New Wave Prediction was on that list.

The point I am making here is that we all do things we are ashamed of. Those with real backbone admit exactly what they did.

In that spirit, an admission and apology from Michael 'newguy' Weber to Craig seems in order here.

I don’t think it is as simple as that. I know from experience as a creator that it is all too easy to accidentally reinvent something you previously learned. Over time you are reading and sometimes buying lots of new ideas. Over time those can be easily mixed up in your head and something old pops into your mind disguised as something new.

I created an effect that I was pretty proud of. I had included it in my lecture and had written it up for Harpacrown Too. Then one day I met up with Paul Brook for a meal and while Paul was sitting in front of my I had this sudden horrifying realisation that I had reinvented Paul and Colin’s This way Up. I immediately addressed my concern with Paul and shared my effect with him. Fortunately he felt that whilst it was clearly influence by This Way Up he felt there were enough differences for him to give his blessing for me to publish my version. I also spoke to Colin who also wanted it shared with owners of This Way Up to ensure that my version did not compromise the limited nature of the original.

The point being that whilst I had a copy of This Way Up and had probably even posted on the internet how much I loved the routine, when I came up with my effect I had no idea how heavily the idea had been influenced by Paul and Colin’s work. It was only when Paul was sitting in front of me that my mind connected the dots and in that moment I was horrified. Had I not had that dinner with Paul it is entirely possible that I would not have made the connection until after I had released the effect inadvertently massively disrespecting two really good guys.

I have also had people share their new effect with me several months after I shared the effect with them. In each case I have no doubt that it was an innocent case of the idea I shared falling to the back of their mind only to later pop back up whilst trying to come up with something new.

Mark

New Wave Prediction was top of Craig's list of his favourite packet tricks. Top.

And as he admitted himself, Red was identical.

Your general point about creators inadvertently reinventing the wheel is a fair one, Mark. But to suggest that was the case with Red is stretching it, to say the least.

Anyway, back to the main topic...