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The Unmasked Magician Inner circle If only I didn't have a wife and a kid I would have MUCH more than 3265 Posts 
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I want to thank Rick for his post. Being open, honest and vulnerable is the most beautiful thing we can do as human beings.
I also want to thank Schlawiner. What an awesome find and what dedication and creative thinking to get to the bottom of the lies. Geeks rock.
Please check regularly if you are becoming the type of magician Jerry Seinfeld jokes about. (This applies to mentalists as well.)
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1tepa1 Inner circle 1389 Posts
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Quote:
On Feb 12, 2023, JasonEngland wrote: What does this mean: [quote]a well-known member of a community would comment favorably on his own creations anonymously. My friend's point is that this is nothing new, nor is it some sort of moral or ethical issue. If what does "it is not a moral or ethical issue" mean? |
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Consultthemind1 Regular user 185 Posts
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Jason, you are correct in your belief that people would likely assume that you are all acting after the fact - read this thread, and you will see that people still believe that now. I get it, you are in a lose/ lose situation, but that is the situation that you and your collective put yourself in. All you are demonstrating now is that you have your own accounts and are happy to post on them, which makes the Newguy situation appear so much worse.
As both routes lead to the same destination, the question is, which path would have made the situation seem less severe? that's debatable. Regarding your friend making that "observation", it came out of your friend's mouth, and you posted it - How does it not sound like a justification? Look at it from the perspective of the audience that it has been presented to. I am happy to put it to bed. For future reference, if you don't want something to be taken out of context or misunderstood, then be clearer. In a situation like this, blaming your audience for not understanding your post is like rubbing salt into a wound. There is a very easy way to know whether your character is good; answer this simple question with a yes or a no. Do you believe what Michael Weber has done (when he used the Newguy account) to be okay? David. |
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1tepa1 Inner circle 1389 Posts
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How can it not sound as a justification when there is zero condemnation of Weber using the account to promote his own stuff while pretending to be someone else and actively harming other content creators with comments while pretending to be not Weber? It is strange how all the comments made by Friends of Weber don't condemn his actions. How else can that come across than as justifying his actions? If you are not able to say that "he was wrong", you are in some sense justifying his actions. If 99 percent of people in this thread find Webers action's wrong, it should give some idea about what the morals and ethics of the general population here is. You can't then sweep that away by saying it is not a matter of ethics or morals. The majority decides what is morally acceptable and what is not. Sure you can have different morals from the majority, but you will be seen as acting in an immoral way by the majority of people in that case.
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JasonEngland V.I.P. Las Vegas, NV 1761 Posts
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Quote:
On Feb 12, 2023, Morganjj wrote: I see. Yes. Unclear on my part. Mea culpa. He was saying that it wasn't a moral or ethical issue when Duchamp did it (he was trying to make a larger point about art, something history shows he did successfully) and that in and of itself, using an anonymous account to defend something of yours isn't a moral and ethical issue. For instance, if you used an anonymous account to correct some mistaken factual element of a product (someone asks if a product comes fully assembled out of the box for instance and you anonymous state that it does) that would not be considered unethical. Certainly there are ways to be unethical in marketing, whether anonymous or not. He was simply stating that anonymity by itself isn't immoral, even in marketing/defending a product. Sorry. To be clear - that story wasn't relayed to me as any sort of justification for anything. It was observational only. Jason
Eternal damnation awaits anyone who questions God's unconditional love. --Bill Hicks
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Sebastian B New user 5 Posts
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Hi,
I have only posted a couple of times on this board, but what has come to light in this thread made write this post. And I would just like to say that it is truly, truly dissapointing behavior from some of the most respected creators/thinkers of this industry. |
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Consultthemind1 Regular user 185 Posts
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I think it’s apparent based on the speed of Jason’s response to Morgan and him entirely ignoring my post that Jason is trying to formulate some clever response to my simple question.
Silence speaks volumes. David. |
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1tepa1 Inner circle 1389 Posts
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Quote:
On Feb 12, 2023, JasonEngland wrote: Okay, but how is that in any way relevant to what Weber did? If someone says that x person did y and that is unethical, and another person responds to that by saying that there was some other person who did something similar but not the same and when that other person did it, it was not unethical, how does that connect to the problem of the thing the first person doing being unethical? We are not discussing what Duchamp did but what Weber did, so unless you are saying that Duchamp did is the same as what Weber did, there is no point in even bringing up Duchamp in the context of Weber since the two things are different and one being not unethical has no bearing on the other being or not being unethical. This is like saying that Bob put razor blades into apples and gave them to kids on halloween and that is bad, and then another person saying "Well, Joe also put Razor blades in apples on Halloween because he does a magic trick where he eats the apples with the razor blades in them and in the end he puts a string in his mouth and pulls out a string and the razor blades or tied onto it and this is not a moral or ethical issue." |
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Winnes Elite user 500 Posts
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WWWD? - now a cautionary consideration, not a question to ponder for inspiration.
This whole saga is incredibly sad and some real giants in the field are looking like snivelling, pompous, cowardly bullies. It’s crazy. |
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leipzisch Inner circle 1428 Posts
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Do you believe what Michael Weber has done (when he used the Newguy account) to be okay?
This is indeed the question that Jason, Eric and the other Weber cronies need to answer. Their dissembling and/ or brazen skirting of the main issue gives the impression that these individuals are unrepentant, or would rather avoid upsetting their chum than show some moral backbone. I wonder which it is? |
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Morganjj Regular user 169 Posts
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Agree with everyone who continues to bring the core question back to the forefront - is using an anonymous account to promote your own work and attack others okay?
Cos a simple acknowledgement of error by anyone involved in the newguy nonsense would be a lot more impressive than the butt covering or art history lessons. Not to mention that the obvious and continued dodging of the question SPEAKS VOLUMES. |
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JasonEngland V.I.P. Las Vegas, NV 1761 Posts
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Quote:
On Feb 12, 2023, 1tepa1 wrote: It wasn't relevant. That's something I didn't make clear at the time. For that, I'm sorry. I'll try one more time. Imagine my friend isn't a magician* and had said, "Interesting story you've just told me. Reminds me of something that happened to Duchamp..." and then I posted that Duchamp story because I found the surface similarities intriguing. I'm very sorry that so many of you thought there was more to it than that. I'll say it again: there is no more to it than that. *To be clear, he is a magician, but he wasn't relating the story as any sort of defense of anything as a magician. He was just noting the surface similarities. I posted it because I found the story interesting, while also noting the surface similarities. If you want to continue this line of questioning my motives in relaying an interesting story, don't be surprised if I fail to engage further. Jason
Eternal damnation awaits anyone who questions God's unconditional love. --Bill Hicks
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leipzisch Inner circle 1428 Posts
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No Jason. We're asking a simple question, which you continue to avoid answering.
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leipzisch Inner circle 1428 Posts
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Regarding crediting and research, what if the community had an agreed protocol?
Eg 'if a creator has searched x and y places (ie well regarded magic crediting databases) and finds no previous effect that matches in both material and method used, they are free to release their creation' This would provide a basic, agreed standard that we could all work from. |
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teenagelabotomy42 New user 94 Posts
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Or how about we hold people to a higher standard than a simple google search.
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leipzisch Inner circle 1428 Posts
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Then it makes sense to have a standard that we all agree is 'higher'.
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JasonEngland V.I.P. Las Vegas, NV 1761 Posts
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Quote:
On Feb 12, 2023, leipzisch wrote: "which you continue to avoid answering." Wanna bet? I know it doesn't seem like it, but I'm not avoiding answering. There are at least 2 people in this discussion that have been involved in the past few pages, that I do not know, but that I've answered and given essentially a full explanation (of my apparent avoidance of this question) to. If I ask them to, they can back that up. Just because I'm not answering you, immediately upon your demand of said answer, doesn't mean I'm silent. Jason
Eternal damnation awaits anyone who questions God's unconditional love. --Bill Hicks
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Kaliix Inner circle Connecticut 2130 Posts
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Don't know you Mr. England. Don't care about the trick or crediting. Just enjoy the watching ongoing drama as it unfolds.
A piece of advice, when you are in a hole, STOP digging! Every attempt at explaining your stance further just makes you look worse. You are OBVIOUSLY just avoiding the main question. You sound like you don't get it and are trying to excuse the behavior. Just an observation, carry on... Quote: On Feb 12, 2023, JasonEngland wrote:
Know that adversity is promised to all of us, what we do with it is what makes us special.
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leipzisch Inner circle 1428 Posts
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Quote:
On Feb 12, 2023, JasonEngland wrote: One's choices of what to say, to whom and when define one's character. |
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Elmer 84 Regular user 181 Posts
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The Café rules state that having more than one account will get you banned. So all of those who used the Newguy account and have their own account should be subject to a permanent ban.
It's time to drain the swamp. |
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Posted: Feb 12, 2023 08:44 am 
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