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will4gzus Veteran user 311 Posts |
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On Feb 12, 2023, Elmer 84 wrote: And go further than that, do not buy anything from the “new guy’ collection 0f creators. Money talks lol |
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Iforindia123 New user 19 Posts |
Someone said I was Craig Petty - yay!!!! I wish I was! I am a very sad individual who works in a very stressful job who comes home to a very ill wife and tries to blank this out by reliving his childhood by collecting and playing around with card tricks. I suffer anxiety and depression because of my life not due to bullying but I know how a stressful life can affect you mentally. Craig and his videos keep me going and inspires me and so when I see him being attacked then I want to defend and only decided to post once I had a couple of beers - it doesn’t take a lot to make me tipsy but felt it was the right time to say something. I also would not defend if I felt that Craig was wrong in all of this. The fact that not only Craig has been affected but now Rick as also been affected upsets me deeply even as an armchair casual hobbyist. And, I also managed to spell Craig correctly!
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strollingmagician Loyal user 285 Posts |
Why does Jason England enjoy stirring the pot so much and continuing to dig? Comes across very pompous like the Mead & Weber.
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Elmer 84 Regular user 181 Posts |
The cryptic final words of Max Maven now make complete sense...
"… I learned that magic allows us to be so much bigger than we are. I learned we should be kind to one another and forgive people for being flawed and prideful. The one thing I know is that we can all do better, and I think we will." |
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The Unmasked Magician Inner circle If only I didn't have a wife and a kid I would have MUCH more than 2645 Posts |
I think you are quoting Max in a cynical way. Please stop doing that.
Please check regularly if you are becoming the type of magician Jerry Seinfeld jokes about. (This applies to mentalists as well.)
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Elmer 84 Regular user 181 Posts |
His words resonate now more than ever. They are 100% appropriate to use here.
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Mac_Stone Inner circle Miami, FL 1420 Posts |
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On Feb 12, 2023, Elmer 84 wrote: Obviously this is a sock puppet account for Ricky Jay. |
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JDobbs New user 69 Posts |
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On Feb 12, 2023, Joe Roberts wrote: What was published in August 2012 in Genii Magazine is "Matrix Receipts" not Age Receipts. I have the magazine, There is no mention in the article from 2012 of using the binary system. Nor can I find mention of getting other routines using any other methods mentioned in the article. |
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Mac_Stone Inner circle Miami, FL 1420 Posts |
JDobbs,
It's already been established what was published in Genii is Matrix Receipts. Age Receipts was undisputedly published as part of Real Secrets in 2012. See the Conjuring Archive. |
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Mind Circus Regular user Northern California 127 Posts |
This feels like the Truman show except everyone is just a single AI Chat Bot talking to itself under dozens of pseudonyms.
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Iforindia123 New user 19 Posts |
It does not take a lot to confuse me and so I have been through all my drawers and boxes and have just found my birth certificate just in case I was mistaken - nope! LOL! Further to this, I also checked my tattoos just in case and I sadly only have one which incidentally spells out ‘LOL’ because it is my wife’s nickname - it was not such a problem back 20 odd years when I got it but now I am a magic geek with LOL on his arm. Deffo not Craig!
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Markymark Inner circle 1686 Posts |
I am not convinced.Further more my chart tells me you are not sleeping.
So many creators over the years have given their own products glowing reviews on the Café.
''In memory of a once fluid man,crammed and distorted by the classical mess'' -Bruce Lee
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Mac_Stone Inner circle Miami, FL 1420 Posts |
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On Feb 12, 2023, Iforindia123 wrote: That's exactly what Craig would say.... |
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The Unmasked Magician Inner circle If only I didn't have a wife and a kid I would have MUCH more than 2645 Posts |
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On Feb 12, 2023, Elmer 84 wrote: His words do resonate now. At the same time I feel you being one of the parties arguing and lashing out at people makes it inappropriate to use Max's words. If you would've been completely neutral or all about making peace then it would be fine to quote him. But I feel you use Max's words of love and wisdom in a passive aggressive way to judge others, without looking in the mirror.
Please check regularly if you are becoming the type of magician Jerry Seinfeld jokes about. (This applies to mentalists as well.)
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Iforindia123 New user 19 Posts |
Mac_Stone you are a hoot as the Americans would say!
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ricklaxmagic Special user West Bloomfield, Michigan 690 Posts |
This thread is the best thing to happen on the Café ever.
Here’s where, I think, many of us are at right now: -It’s wrong to use fake accounts to manipulate the market into buying $200 tricks that should cost $15. If you do that and you get caught, people will be rightfully angry. -Even if you have good intentions with wanting others to credit--and I don’t cede that Weber & Co. have good intentions, but let’s assume they do--that does not justify bullying and ruining lives and professional reputations. Now I might lose people here, but I think we need a new system that puts the AUDIENCE first. That should be our first goal: entertaining people. If your only goal is to sell your own products, then of course you have an incentive to set up a ‘crediting system’ where nobody else is allowed to release products for $30 because they’re all thieves and should be expelled from the community and ONLY you and your friends have the right to put out products because ONLY you and your friends are the holy ones. We all need to see: THAT is how he’s gotten away with it…gotten away with charging to much for tricks and extra tag-on sessions to conventions. Systemized market suppression. The two go hand in hand. So what should the right approach be? I don’t know! I think crediting is fascinating and important, and if you’ve actually purchased anything from me a decade ago when I was releasing tricks, then you know I like to do it. (Or if you’ve never gotten my tricks and only read the Café, then you think me and all my friends are thieves and evil, so you’ll have to take my word on this.) So it’s important…BUT, not so important that we should be destroying lives over it, or stopping audiences from being entertained. “Gosh, I wish I could show you this trick and amaze you and make your night delightful, but a lawyer in California says that I can’t and I’m afraid of him suing me.” Some of you know this, but…randomly, like Weber, I’m a lawyer. And I think the reason there are so few laws around this and so few cases is…there’s just not that much money in play. Nobody actually wants to litigate this stuff (with very few exceptions). But right now, in short, it’s easier to protect a ‘magic device’ or a choreography, but hard--perhaps impossible--to protect a ‘method.’ 99% of the fights are about methods. As somebody who leans libertarian, I think it’s fine to set up a group and say, “We’re the magic crediting group and if you want to be a member, then you have to credit in the way that we want, or else we kick you out.” That’s totally fine! But…. Don’t confuse that group with the whole magic community. Magic is so big. It’s been performed forever, in tons of different ways, mostly by hobbyists and dads and moms and kids and doctors and teachers…it’s performed for friends, on dates, in families, on Facebook, on TikTok, on Instagram…there are SO MANY ways to perform magic and so many performers. A group of elitists in LA does not represent the whole world of magic. Don’t take punishments further. If somebody doesn’t want to credit or doesn’t credit in the way that you want, sure, kick them out of your club, but don’t destroy their lives. You set up the crediting rules (to help your own sales, not to help audiences, despite your claims), and you have no jurisdiction over the people who don’t want to be a part of your club. Also…I can’t speak for everyone here, but I do NOT want to respond in kind. Yes, I left magic because of the bullying, but I don’t think the right response is to kick out the bullies. I think it’s better if we can all get on the same page and work together to entertain people, knowing our styles are quite different. That’s not bad; that’s good! I’ll admit: When it’s good, I LOVE elitists card magic at the castle from ***s. Example Derek DelGuadio was standing aside Armando Lucero when the false ‘Ricky’s a thief’ charges began, and he’s disrespected me ever since…” and I LOVED his broadway show and the Hulu version. It was incredible and he is incredible. I want him to keep performing and entertaining people because I love magic. My biggest hope with this thread is not that Weber & Co. will leave the Café. I hope we can all work together to realize that the current state of things is not right. Let’s fix it and move forward together. -Ricky P.S., Thanks to everyone who has been sending kind messages yesterday and today. Really warms my heart. It’s especially great to see people who don’t leave a lot of comments chiming in, which takes incredible bravery. Seriously…having been the target of the Magic Mob many times…speaking up against them is terrifying. |
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reignofsound Inner circle Glasgow, UK 2199 Posts |
We need a Rick Lax / Craig Petty clear the air chat on Magic TV
Would be great to hear you're thoughts on all things magic. Spread the positivity. |
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strollingmagician Loyal user 285 Posts |
I agree with Rick. We have all grown from the conversations in this epic magic Café thread of the year. One big therapy session for magi who like to session. We all love magic which is why we are here.
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Iforindia123 New user 19 Posts |
As do I - it would be lovely if something good come out of all this .
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Intrepid Inner circle Silver Spring, MD 1179 Posts |
I've noticed that all the posts that reference regulations outside of those of the Magic Café have been quietly removed.
So in respect to the poor mods who are working overtime in monitoring this discussion, let me reference the Café's rules instead, which forbid posts that: (E) violates any law or may be considered to violate any law; (F) advocates or promotes illegal activity; (G) impersonates or misrepresents your connection to any other entity or person or otherwise manipulates headers or identifiers to disguise the origin of the content; The purpose in posting this is not to get anyone in trouble. And I don't think this matter rises to the level of involvement outside of the magic community. The purpose of citing the Café rules, however, is to simply make it clear that any effort to condone deceptive marketing actives is, without question, on the wrong side of sound moral and ethical judgment. Having said that, I don't believe anyone involved is a bad person. If fact, based on my own interaction with these individual at lectures and conventions, I firmly believe all of the players involved are nice, charming and truly caring people that where acting in what they sincerely believed were good intensions at the time. And I hope they take this opportunity and reflect on their past marketing activity and those of their peers and consider it in a new light. I very much want all of us to be able to move beyond this and enjoy great time and great conversations at future conventions. The desired outcome from all of this is that the magic community as a whole now realizes and acknowledges the use of deceptive fake reviews as being unethical, and that we all now do our part to ensure none of our peers engage is such activity going forward. If anyone is aware of this kind of marketing deception being performed by others, this is an opportunity for you to do them a favor by reaching out and persuading them to stop now. I hope this is a path forward that we can all agree on and be friends again.
Bob
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