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sileeni Veteran user UK. 366 Posts 
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You're right, anyone that's been around the block at least once here knows you and your credentials. Thank you for what you have done for Magic.
And Weber, when you read this. Stop being a coward. Come clean, own up and apologise. The sad thing is though; narcissistic, arrogant, cowardly egomaniacs like Weber and Trono never admit to their ethical and moral corruption. At best you'll get some non-apology that somehow will try to make themselves the victim. |
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Sudo Nimh Inner circle 1910 Posts
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Just for the record: I don't know Craig Petty personally and have never interacted with him. I am (basically) placing my neck out on the chopping block for a complete stranger. I have a few releases of my own that are set to come out this year and I suspect that this ordeal may affect them negatively. I hope not, but it is a very real possibility.
Converting the numbers 51, 6, and 500 to Roman numerals makes me LIVID!
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Craig Petty V.I.P. UK 2903 Posts
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Quote:
On Feb 3, 2023, Sudo Nimh wrote: Words cannot express how grateful I am that you did this. It was not something you had to do. When I made the video that kicked this all off I sat in my office all day questioning if I was doing the right thing. My heart was going crazy. It must have been even more difficult for you to post this and I need you to know I am forever on you debt It was obvious to me that Michael was New Guy hence my post earlier. I just wish he would actually speak for himself in this situation rather than pretending he is someone else. Perhaps this will prompt him to actually do this although I have a feeling this thread will be deleted soon even though it breaks no Café rules Thank you again |
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Craig Petty V.I.P. UK 2903 Posts
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Quote:
On Feb 3, 2023, newguy wrote: Michael I think I covered this in my video to you. Your age cards were buried in secret publications and given away for free in a magazine where a different trick was described. However if you cannot see the difference between a sheet of paper with 400 words at best and a 7 hour expansive project with some of the top Mentaliste in the world contributing then I suggest you watch my video again as that might help give you a frame of reference Have a good day Michael |
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Sudo Nimh Inner circle 1910 Posts
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Quote:
On Feb 3, 2023, Craig Petty wrote: I'm just so sorry to hear that you're going through this, Craig. I couldn't agree more with your feelings on how this was handled and I wish you all the best in this difficult situation.
Converting the numbers 51, 6, and 500 to Roman numerals makes me LIVID!
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1tepa1 Inner circle 1389 Posts
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Well done Sudo.
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sileeni Veteran user UK. 366 Posts
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Before Weber, I mean Newguy deletes his profile. Here's some fun stuff. Copy and paste the following into Google: site:themagiccafe.com "newguy" "weber"
or just click this link. https://tinyurl.com/newguyiswebber Every single link spread over 6 pages of Google Search history is a direct link to a Magic Café post where Weber/newguy has commented on a thread that talks about him. It is a RABBIT HOLE. And extremely embarrassing for Weber 
Here's a few examples:  And for one final laugh, a friend sent me this.  Case closed. |
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Sudo Nimh Inner circle 1910 Posts
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His username is "newguy" and he's anything but. If you keep poking around, you'll find many more posts where he comments on threads about him or his products. This is just the tip of the iceberg.
Converting the numbers 51, 6, and 500 to Roman numerals makes me LIVID!
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Roberto W Inner circle 1544 Posts
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I don’t think the haters can compare this to Red, as much as it’s easy to jump and drive that narrative. Why, because this is a different scenario to red, why because some could call this a variation or similar premise and not exact as what it’s being accused of. Red was exact and Craig admitted it, not only admitted it but did everything he could to pull it asap and try to make it right.
It’s going to happen now and again that creations have already been created and sometimes some of the most knowledgable in magic wouldn’t have heard of it and that’s how it slips through the net - regardless to what homework you have done. In lots of cases eg red, it’s then either pulled or agreement between two people which will allow and respectful credit given etc. I think everyone can see Craig (like any of us) would not want a repeat of red, personal reasons, reputation etc so IF this came about again, I 100% guarantee Craig would follow same suit and actions as Red and simply pull it. Let’s not forget he would have sought advice from others too and they would have independently said “Sorry Craig but I think you may have to pull this”. |
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magic_tony Veteran user 303 Posts
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Another Café drama - this is better than TV!
Quote:
On Feb 3, 2023, newguy wrote: The answer to that question is simple - it depends entirely on WHO is releasing the product! If you're not in favour with the wolves on here, the pack will attack for the slightest mistake! Otherwise don't worry, they will come to your defence for anything. To quote Craig: Quote:
However if you cannot see the difference between a sheet of paper with 400 words at best and a 7 hour expansive project with some of the top Mentaliste in the world contributing then I suggest you watch my video again as that might help give you a frame of reference This argument is rather amusing - perhaps I should release a version of his Keymaster and include 20 hours of instructional video - perhaps that would make it ok?! Surely you will see the difference?! 
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Roberto W Inner circle 1544 Posts
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Yes but in that argument, if you release the exact copy of keymaster then it’s the red scenario. The difference what Craig is defending is that this is not an exact copy or replica, but a improvement and extra additions to an existing principle
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dirtyfoucault Special user UK 850 Posts
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The magic community goes from asking WWWD? to WWND? overnight.
Or maybe not. We don't need to look up to cowardly bullies any more. Behind Craig 100%. These guys are cleatly twisting the facts to suit their own ends |
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JL608 Regular user 162 Posts
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Wait just a minute - I'M Michael Weber - and so is my wife.
Always look on the bright side of life. Or not. |
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leipzisch Inner circle 1408 Posts
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I followed the Red debacle fairly closely, back when.
The one thing that Craig never seems to admit is that he KNEW he was copying Bob Farmer's trick. Craig had shared a list of his favourite card effects several years before releasing Red. And New Wave Prediction was on that list. The point I am making here is that we all do things we are ashamed of. Those with real backbone admit exactly what they did. In that spirit, an admission and apology from Michael 'newguy' Weber to Craig seems in order here. |
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peirceman Regular user 158 Posts
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Latest and Greatest is gonna get mighty quiet if creators cannot use existing principles to come up with new presentations.
BTW, I am not Michael Weber. |
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Elmer 84 Regular user 181 Posts
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Quote:
On Feb 3, 2023, dirtyfoucault wrote: Is Luke Jermay going to have his tattoo updated?! |
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Mac_Stone Inner circle Miami, FL 1521 Posts
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Again, the other guys did it first. Where is the controversy?
I’ve had the receipts from the other guys for years, since they were released in The Works about five years ago maybe. I have no doubt they were also released in earlier projects as well. The fact that it remained an underground secret that Craig knew nothing about does not negate the fact that they did it first. I ask again, where is the controversy? Craig has made some “improvements“ but does that really warrant releasing this, especially without the approval or at the very least acknowledgement of the people that came before you? Craig says he’s doubled the amount of choices for a spectator and has therefore astronomically improved the trick. I disagree, and so does Josh Jay, you can read about his focus group studies where among other things he has identified that for an audience there is no discernible difference between 1 in 4 or 1 in 10,000. You can read about it in Josh’s new book. Craig says he’s actually changed the effect and therefore it is different. He can argue this point and it might be fair, I would argue his effect is cr@p. He’s predicted the amount of receipts that a selected item is printed on, a total of up to five and as a bonus he can read their mind. The first being an obviously useless preamble to the latter. Craig is upset about how the other guys have made him feel but I don’t he’s showing much empathy for them either. From their perspective here comes Craig doing the same thing he did to them twelve years ago. Again, to put it simply, they did it first. Whether or not Craig wants to acknowledge that and whether or not Craig has actually made any improvements to the effect that would merit its own separate release is an entirely different story. Something else to consider. The other guys have recently released their spectacular work on the Jastrow illusion that has exponentially elevated the effect. David Regal has also recently released his work on the Jastrow illusion but you don’t see the other guys banging on his door because the effects are obviously different even if both are fundamentally the same. All in all, I’m sat here thinking about Max’s last words.… |
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Elmer 84 Regular user 181 Posts
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I like both Craig and Michael.
Craig has said previously that he sees the Café as a marketing resource. And that controversy sells product. So this is a dream come true for him and, potentially, a nightmare for Michael. Both offer much to the magic world so I hope this gets resolved amicably. I'm happy to act as a go-between here. |
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dirtyfoucault Special user UK 850 Posts
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How underground can something be before it doesn't, for all intents and purposes, actually exist?
Regardless, Craig's is a huge project with many different variations and handlings by many different performers. The other guys have a trick buried somewhere or other, maybe, possibly (although there appears to be no hard evidence as yet). Maybe one of the clique can share the supposed Weber release so we can make up our own minds. |
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sileeni Veteran user UK. 366 Posts
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Quote:
On Feb 3, 2023, Mac_Stone wrote: I think you've missed the point entirely. Or have you not listened to any of the facts? What newguy/Weber did was share a brief (500 hundred word) write up of a basic method and routine, in a secret club, that no one was allowed to talk about over a decade ago. It was never on, in or eluded to in Genii. Just to the select, accepted and auth sworn minuscule amount of members that were in the RS club. This project is a 6 hour monolith with over 80% of the content/tricks/routines etc having being created and/or taught by the likes of Mark Lemon, Peter Turner, Peter Nardi, Michael Murray etc. If people were not allowed to MASSIVELY, HUGELY expand upon tiny trick write ups/methods that were actively kept secret for decades, then we'd be stuck in the dark ages of magic. And by saying "allowed"... let me be very clear. Newguy's brief write up was only unearthed by himself in the past few days. Pretty hard to get "permission to use an idea" when the only people that were even aware of its existence were sworn to secrecy. Or..., let's go with your way of thinking. Let's snap our fingers and work to your archaic moral compass. *Snap!* Oh look at that... we're all out here pretending our thumbs have fallen off while we take coins out from each others ears. Have a word with yourself. |
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Posted: Feb 3, 2023 10:42 am 
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