So Michael Weber isn't NewGuy and therefore hasn't been masquerading as someone else on this forum for the past twenty years? Just saying.

Everyone is lovely. Let's all eat buttercups and dance with fairies.

Except newguy. He's not invited.

Actually, I totally understand why Weber wouldn't want to show up on here as himself. Anonymity is a beautiful thing.

This forum is a mob. I totally understand why someone wouldn't want to have to deal with all the garbage that get's thrown around on here. None of you have even READ the emails, yet the pitchforks are sharp and ready to go. That's how chaotic the internet has become.

Yeah, NewGuy is actually Michael Weber. Mark Twain is actually Samuel Clemens. Zincy7 is actually your 4th cousin, twice removed. It's the internet. Someone's burner account isn't surprising at all. Disappointing? Sure. Michael should not have tried to hide behind a burner account trying to discredit Craig. That's some Kevin Durant-level weak sauce. He's a brilliant magician. Everyone knows it. Stooping down to that level is loser behavior and a lapse in judgement. And he already took the L for it in this thread.

But Michael & Tim's business with Craig is really between them, and I think they should hash that out between themselves (NOT through MM). It would do a world of good to clear the air so that there's no bad blood.

And as someone that's made mistakes, I'm fully aware that no one is immune from f#$^ing it all up over something dumb. So no, I'm not going to take a singular embarassing instance and paint Michael or Tim as bad people, just as I do not take Craig's RED incident and paint him as a villain.

Yall need to touch some grass.
Does it make me laugh and will it become an incredibly funny inside joke to meet Michael Weber and go "Who's the newguy"? Yes. Yes it will.

Gaslighting at its finest.

One (small) example of the impact this fine chap has had on fellow magicians.

I nearly bought Lifesavers based on the glowing review left by 'Guy' over at Vanishing Inc. And that of course was 'Guy's' intention.

And I'm not a creator, not particularly active in the magic community and I've never met Mr Weber.

Thank goodness.

Not only that does anyone else think it’s funny zincy7 joined in 2018
Has a total of 4 posts and defends Weber

Or is this another one of Weber fake accounts like the NewGuy ?

Lol aaaaaaand it's started.

Glad to see that none of you seem to have read anything Andy wrote on his site, nor took any time to actually consider that maybe, just MAYBE, you're overreacting to something you don't have all the facts on.

A looot of dudes on here talkin a lot of smack they wouldn't say to anyone's face. So I'll say it again. You all need to touch some grass. Get off the internet. You're all suffering from brainrot.

Which reminds me, I'm working on a new brainwave effect called B'Rot, and it would be hilarious to have an effect where all the cards in a deck turn on one single card, but you don't know the card cuz it's under a pseudonym, and you ask the spectator who they think the card is, and coincidentally, they're correct.

Then you pull out a miniature pitchfork and stab the card and light it on fire and hand it out as a souvenir.

Hey MM, call me.

He just summarized said blog post that is not allowed to be posted on the Café. No reason to be paranoid. Not everybody who doesn't post much is a fake account...

To be clear, the article itself goes into more depth as to why Michael and Tim messed up in their own right. This is certainly not a one-sided affair, but by the tone of the magiccafe, and knowing how long these posts last (seriously, I've read spats dating back to 2003), I think it's important that we act a bit more mature about how we characterize others on the internet. Craig is not a thief. He did great work with his release, and I think even Weber and Trono would admit that. And I think Weber and Trono SHOULD have offered other alternatives other than striking the product down, especially when it was already this far into production. Revenue sharing is far easier than having to deal with whatever mess this has turned into.

And I'm more than happy that the conversation turned towards the arguments around citations. As someone in medical research, I've always had to cite my sources, and very often we forget that spontaneous thoughts can happen independently, and people think of the same ideas by chance. If we want to have our work cited, we should be forthright about the methodology to SOME degree, otherwise, no one owes you squat.

Quote: "Michael and Tim DID release this trick MULTIPLE times, including in Real Secrets and in The Works (the latter of which I own), before Craig's trick was ever produced."

If that's really the case, then the situation is clear. What is there to discuss then?

I have the feeling that things are being deliberately lumped together and that the actual question of authorship is being pushed into the background.

You can find the fake account "Newguy" good or bad, but what does that have to do with the actual question? The question is always the same with such problems:

Who published the idea or the trick FIRST? And all successors should, out of respect, seek permission from the inventor for further publication.

Point.

On January 30th, Weber and Trono are advised of the existence of EDCeipt. They watch the trailer and send Craig an email that lets him know that this is not original to him and ask him not to release it. This email isn’t particularly friendly, nor is it adversarial. It’s fairly straightforward.

Craig doesn’t respond to this. I think that was a mistake. In fact, Craig has never responded to Michael or Tim directly about this issue. Maybe he feels they wouldn’t be receptive to what he has to say. Whatever the case, he passes the issue along to Murphy’s to handle.

Lets repeat.Scott Dressburg beat Michael and Tim to the concept. They do not get original credit and have zero ownership of the concept.
In fact, its a little dirty they are using his concept and sold it on a secret website. Its even dirtier to tell other people they cannot use the concept.

Scott does not care if Craig or Michael uses his concept.

All in all, Craig's new release leaves a bad taste. Calling a video "The Downfall of XYZ" is unacceptable and disrespectful. Unfortunately, someone takes themselves too seriously. Since he deleted his last video on the subject, he must have noticed that he was overdoing it. With all due respect to Craig's work and dedication to magic. That was really overkill. And sooner or later it will come back to him and he will withdraw from the magic world again.

Personally I find claiming authorship over the application of a common method to a common item dubious at best, but understand that others may feel differently. Earlier, and though out this whole discussion you've stated that authorship was the primary issue. However, now that we know that authorship belongs to Scott Dressburg the primary issue has changed to "bad taste" instead? I'm confused, why the change in priorities? Why is authorship no long the sole issue of importance anymore? What caused this change? This is a rhetorical question that does not need to be answered, just something to reflect on.

Andy seems a friend of Craig so he wouldn’t lie about him correct’ the quote above sums it all.

Graig is a decent guy. Im with him on this. He did everything right and Weber and Trono are not the original creators anyway. And they claimed that they wanted to release it again this year? Who believes that?? Just crediting them somehow should be enough as they sold it almost privately ten years ago!!.

Regards

Hey everyone

It’s true that I haven’t personally emailed Tim or Michael back at any point. However once they emailed Murphys Magic I was involved with every email. I had to include Murphys as it’s their product and they made the investment.

Originally Tim emailed me and I didn’t reply because Shaun Dunn advised me not to reply until he had spoken to Tim. Unfortunately Tim contacted Murphys before it could be sorted between me and Tim. To be clear the intention from the beginning was not a credit but to have the product pulled. And once again they never asked to see the tutorial before asking that the product was pulled

It has now been proved that Scott Dressburg released an identical trick from the 1990’s using the binary system with receipts. So both myself and Michael we not the first to use this concept. In fact the version described in Real Secrets is almost identical to Scott’s original while mine has over six hours of tutorial. There are many different handlings discussed that don’t even use cribs or sorting procedures at all. Look at is as an expansive project on the binary system used with receipts

As for the comment about me leaving the community again, that might happen one day. Magic TV has been a full time job in order to produce the content I do. In fact I have actually taken one of my staff off his normal role to work full time on this as well. I believe the content and the interviews I put up are valuable to the community but it might get to the point where I have just had enough. If I chose to leave though I am determined that this time it will be on my terms and I will want to leave the community in a better place than it was before I found it

For everyone saying this was a marketing ploy please think again. For five days I haven’t slept and I have been more stressed than ever before. I regret the amount of controversy that has occurred around this whole thing. I did what I thought was best and I stand by that decision. But for everyone that didn’t like the controversy or felt it was a marketing stunt I apologise.

I have to go now, my actual work has suffered this week and I need to get back on track with what I actually do full time

Cheers

If we truly loved ourselves we wouldn't hurt one another.

Was gonna message this to you Craig but thought public was better:

Saw your last post. Brother, PLEASE take care of yourself. I cannot imagine the level of stress you're experiencing. Debilitating at the least.

But your health isn't worth the crap, mental, physical, spiritual. And your son is watching. He's taking his cues on how to handle all this from you.

You've shown tremendous grace, now show grace to yourself. You know who you are. You're not what anyone else thinks of you. Including people on the Café, including me, including people who only touch your life with comments online somewhere.

Remember who you are and what you've contributed, then remind yourself, what others think of you isn't your business.

That "should" eliminate half the stress right there. You have nothing to prove anymore. Your detractors know it and don't care, your supporters know it and do. There is nothing you can ever say to appease the former, and you already have the love, support and understanding of the latter.

Full disclosure: I also wish well on Weber and Trono. Honestly. They've always been good to me. There's information none of us are privy to in any situation. I just know we all make mistakes and my sins may not be as public, but I in no way can cast the first stone.

I'm praying for you and them both.

Just continue being you. No one else can, nor do they have the work ethic to do it.

But give yourself grace. And let go of the people and comments who won't. Drop that weight, then either take some melatonin or pop on some vhs of Darwin's card magic lectures and you'll finally get the sleep restful you deserve. (I mean, his work is exceptional, the delivery is just a tad dry, not trying to hate )

PS - I think I’m going through menopause or something because I’m getting more emotional and sappy the older I get. Sorry everyone for the 60’s hug posts, ha!