On Feb 3, 2023, dirtyfoucault wrote:
How underground can something be before it doesn't, for all intents and purposes, actually exist?

Regardless, Craig's is a huge project with many different variations and handlings by many different performers. The other guys have a trick buried somewhere or other, maybe, possibly (although there appears to be no hard evidence as yet).

Maybe one of the clique can share the supposed Weber release so we can make up our own minds.

On Feb 3, 2023, teenagelabotomy42 wrote:
I have a 25 page pdf of the Weber effect from 2016 and it’s not from RS. It’s pretty easy to find if you try a little.

On Feb 3, 2023, leipzisch wrote:
I followed the Red debacle fairly closely, back when.

The one thing that Craig never seems to admit is that he KNEW he was copying Bob Farmer's trick.

Craig had shared a list of his favourite card effects several years before releasing Red. And New Wave Prediction was on that list.

The point I am making here is that we all do things we are ashamed of. Those with real backbone admit exactly what they did.

In that spirit, an admission and apology from Michael 'newguy' Weber to Craig seems in order here.

On Feb 3, 2023, sileeni wrote:

Quote:

On Feb 3, 2023, teenagelabotomy42 wrote:
I have a 25 page pdf of the Weber effect from 2016 and it’s not from RS. It’s pretty easy to find if you try a little.

Simply enlighten us.

On Feb 3, 2023, dirtyfoucault wrote:
How underground can something be before it doesn't, for all intents and purposes, actually exist?

Regardless, Craig's is a huge project with many different variations and handlings by many different performers. The other guys have a trick buried somewhere or other, maybe, possibly (although there appears to be no hard evidence as yet).

Maybe one of the clique can share the supposed Weber release so we can make up our own minds.

On Feb 3, 2023, teenagelabotomy42 wrote:

Quote:

On Feb 3, 2023, sileeni wrote:

Quote:

On Feb 3, 2023, teenagelabotomy42 wrote:
I have a 25 page pdf of the Weber effect from 2016 and it’s not from RS. It’s pretty easy to find if you try a little.

Simply enlighten us.

Happy to! Looks like Weber released this again in 2016! Hope that clears it up.

On Feb 3, 2023, Nathan Alexander wrote:
Also, um … SUDO! Miss you brother and think of you often...

On Feb 3, 2023, Mark_Chandaue wrote:

Quote:

On Feb 3, 2023, leipzisch wrote:
I followed the Red debacle fairly closely, back when.

The one thing that Craig never seems to admit is that he KNEW he was copying Bob Farmer's trick.

Craig had shared a list of his favourite card effects several years before releasing Red. And New Wave Prediction was on that list.

The point I am making here is that we all do things we are ashamed of. Those with real backbone admit exactly what they did.

In that spirit, an admission and apology from Michael 'newguy' Weber to Craig seems in order here.

I don’t think it is as simple as that. I know from experience as a creator that it is all too easy to accidentally reinvent something you previously learned. Over time you are reading and sometimes buying lots of new ideas. Over time those can be easily mixed up in your head and something old pops into your mind disguised as something new.

I created an effect that I was pretty proud of. I had included it in my lecture and had written it up for Harpacrown Too. Then one day I met up with Paul Brook for a meal and while Paul was sitting in front of my I had this sudden horrifying realisation that I had reinvented Paul and Colin’s This way Up. I immediately addressed my concern with Paul and shared my effect with him. Fortunately he felt that whilst it was clearly influence by This Way Up he felt there were enough differences for him to give his blessing for me to publish my version. I also spoke to Colin who also wanted it shared with owners of This Way Up to ensure that my version did not compromise the limited nature of the original.

The point being that whilst I had a copy of This Way Up and had probably even posted on the internet how much I loved the routine, when I came up with my effect I had no idea how heavily the idea had been influenced by Paul and Colin’s work. It was only when Paul was sitting in front of me that my mind connected the dots and in that moment I was horrified. Had I not had that dinner with Paul it is entirely possible that I would not have made the connection until after I had released the effect inadvertently massively disrespecting two really good guys.

I have also had people share their new effect with me several months after I shared the effect with them. In each case I have no doubt that it was an innocent case of the idea I shared falling to the back of their mind only to later pop back up whilst trying to come up with something new.

Mark

On Feb 3, 2023, sileeni wrote:

Quote:

On Feb 3, 2023, teenagelabotomy42 wrote:

Quote:

On Feb 3, 2023, sileeni wrote:

Quote:

On Feb 3, 2023, teenagelabotomy42 wrote:
I have a 25 page pdf of the Weber effect from 2016 and it’s not from RS. It’s pretty easy to find if you try a little.

Simply enlighten us.

Happy to! Looks like Weber released this again in 2016! Hope that clears it up.

Wow! Thanks for that. I released this in 2008! Hope that clears it up.

On Feb 3, 2023, Sudo Nimh wrote:
How can you see no problem? Not only has he (Michael) jumped the gun and sent veiled threats to Craig, but he is here talking to him directly while preteding to be someone else - and a fan of his own work!!! Personally, I'm horrified as Michael was someone I once considered a friend. At the very least, it demonstrates that he is not being honest and forthright... There's much more I could say here but my better judgement forbids from doing so.

On Feb 3, 2023, teenagelabotomy42 wrote:

Quote:

On Feb 3, 2023, sileeni wrote:

Quote:

On Feb 3, 2023, teenagelabotomy42 wrote:

Quote:

On Feb 3, 2023, sileeni wrote:

Quote:

On Feb 3, 2023, teenagelabotomy42 wrote:
I have a 25 page pdf of the Weber effect from 2016 and it’s not from RS. It’s pretty easy to find if you try a little.

Simply enlighten us.

Happy to! Looks like Weber released this again in 2016! Hope that clears it up.

Wow! Thanks for that. I released this in 2008! Hope that clears it up.

No need to lie. Im just confused as to why people keep saying he only released a little write up when that’s not the case.

On Feb 3, 2023, dirtyfoucault wrote:
Haha, so nobody outside the clique is allowed to see the write-up. But everybody outside the clique is expected to be familiar with it in intimate detail. Gotcha.

What a positively Kafkaesque world you inhabit.

Sileeni is right. You've completely misunderstood the point. But you have identified yourself as a rather biased member of the clique. So hardly without bias.

On Feb 3, 2023, Mac_Stone wrote:

Quote:

On Feb 3, 2023, dirtyfoucault wrote:
Haha, so nobody outside the clique is allowed to see the write-up. But everybody outside the clique is expected to be familiar with it in intimate detail. Gotcha.

What a positively Kafkaesque world you inhabit.

Sileeni is right. You've completely misunderstood the point. But you have identified yourself as a rather biased member of the clique. So hardly without bias.

It’s not my place to share with you someone else’s effect. That should go without saying but I guess I‘ll spell it out for you.

Further, why should I share something with you for free which I paid for?

What a world you inhabit.…

On Feb 3, 2023, Mac_Stone wrote:

Quote:

On Feb 3, 2023, dirtyfoucault wrote:
Haha, so nobody outside the clique is allowed to see the write-up. But everybody outside the clique is expected to be familiar with it in intimate detail. Gotcha.

What a positively Kafkaesque world you inhabit.

Sileeni is right. You've completely misunderstood the point. But you have identified yourself as a rather biased member of the clique. So hardly without bias.

It’s not my place to share with you someone else’s effect. That should go without saying but I guess I‘ll spell it out for you.

Further, why should I share something with you for free which I paid for?

What a world you inhabit.…

On Feb 3, 2023, sileeni wrote:
Unless it's some giant secret, simply say where it was published in 2016. Name the publication. Then we can go and find it.

I'll wait...

On Feb 3, 2023, Mac_Stone wrote:

Quote:

On Feb 3, 2023, sileeni wrote:
Unless it's some giant secret, simply say where it was published in 2016. Name the publication. Then we can go and find it.

I'll wait...

Published in The Works a subscription based newsletter issued through Psience. It’s not a secret, pages and pages have been discussed about it on Genii forum.

There are many things in this world that you do not know, that does not mean they do not exist. Children learn object permanence around eight months of age.…