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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Latest and Greatest? » » EDCeipt by Craig Petty - BRAND NEW » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (2348 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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ricklaxmagic
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Quote:
On Feb 11, 2023, leipzisch wrote:
Btw I (perhaps naively) assumed Weber's unethical behaviour extended to using a pseudonym to promote his own products and stifle criticism.

If he has systematically undermined the sales of another creator using the same method, the (new)guy can only be described as scum.



Yeah, when I searched my tricks, I found 'newguy' leaving comments that were redirecting people to buy other things and making charges of theft/bad crediting, etc etc. But, yes, seems like more of the posts were about Weber and his work. I just feel so foolish that I fell for it...thinking that these new magicians didn't like me, but really it was the professionals whose tricks were competing against mine in the marketplace...I fell for it. Smile
ricklaxmagic
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Quote:
On Feb 11, 2023, DJG wrote:
I'm late to your work Rick, but like what I see! Let me know if you decide to come back.


Smile Smile Smile
jhostler
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On Feb 11, 2023, JasonEngland wrote:
I've known newguy was a collective acct since at least 2007 (and have the emails to prove it). Never posted as newguy but have had offers made, ala, "That's a good way of putting that, you should post that. Or if you want, "newguy" can do it." Don't recall if I ever took newguy up on the offer, but it's very possible. So Eric's admission that it was at times a collective voice is confirmed.

The intentional misspelling "Webber" was a persistent inside joke amongst those of us that knew. It came from the many times his name was accidentally misspelled that way here on the Café (and other places). A similar inside joke exists due to people mispronouncing his name as "Weeber" if they've never heard it, only read it.

Regardless- much ado about nothing IMO.

From a friend who truly isn't on the Café (may or may not be a newguy alum - I'll have to check):



In 1917, a work of art was unveiled at an exhibition in NYC. The work was immediately deemed “offensive” and the group that organized the show, The Society of Independent Artists, shut it down.

Marcel Duchamp, a founding member of The Society of Independent Artists, came to the new artist’s defense in a publication called The Blind Man. Duchamp stated:

“Whether Mr. Mutt with his own hands made the fountain or not has no importance. He CHOSE it. He took an ordinary article of life, placed it so that its useful significance disappeared under the new title and point of view – he created a new thought for the object… as for the plumbing, that is absurd. The only works of art American has given are her plumbing and her bridges.”

(Duchamp was Mutt.)
Jason


I fail to see the point of this Duchamp story. There is no contextual equivalence. Here, now, in the early 21st century, a well-known magician (or magicians) used a fake online account to praise their own products (and themselves) and attack others in the industry. At least one member of this "alliance" has done so for nearly two decades. So this was neither a "mistake" nor a fleeting lapse of judgement, nor - as in Duchamp's case - any sort of artistic statement.
strollingmagician
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Where are the magic police to deal with the magic mafia? Its a free for all in this industry.
DJG
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Don't thank me, continue creating!
ricklaxmagic
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"I fail to see the point of this Duchamp story. There is no contextual equivalence. Here, now, in the early 21st century, a well-known magician (or magicians) used a fake online account to praise their own products (and themselves) and attack others in the industry. At least one member of this "alliance" has done so for nearly two decades. So this was neither a "mistake" nor a fleeting lapse of judgement, nor - as in Duchamp's case - any sort of artistic statement"

I totally agree Jason. Eric has the most surface level understanding of Ducharmp. Ceci n'est pas une legitimate argument.
leipzisch
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I wonder if Wobbler thought about the impact that making criticisms under a pseudonym would have on those he trashed?

Of course he anticipated a negative impact on their popularity and sales. But what about inculcating the feeling that the community didn't value your output? Disliked you?

I hope the man is truly sorry for his nefarious behaviour. Truly sorry.
Iforindia123
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Rick, you are most welcome Smile I have been a member of the Magic Café for over a year maybe two but just jump in every once in a while to check on the latest releases. I think I have only posted a couple of times before but just felt that it was time that people like myself who tend to shy from posting showed support for those that are oppressed - I knew about Craig Petty from the videos he made but did not know that you also were affected by the bullying nature of certain individuals. I know too the effects that these things can have on people as I suffer anxiety and depression and it is not nice what these people are doing. It has been said that it was a bit of a joke between them all - oh great then, it was for a bit of fun! They have no concept of the hurt they cause both mentally and also to people’s careers. I hope too that you start to enjoy the freedom of creating and producing magic tricks again now that these people are being exposed for what they are.
Schlawiner
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I don't think that the "newguy" acc was really shared by multiple people (but maybe the acc was started with this idea).

The reason I think the account was never shared is because of the timestamps of the postings. I downloaded the timestamps of all 411 postings of the newacc account and plotted them based on the weekday and time of posting. Using such a plot you can easily see when a person is active on the forum and when the person is sleeping (not making posts in the forum).

In the attachment you can see the plots when the users craig petty, mac_stone, jason england and newguy made all their posts here in the forum (I also plottet craig petty, mac_stone and jason england to have something to compare). Timestamps are plottet with the timezone of the forum. For example, you can see that mac_stone goes to bed around 06:00 and sleeps approx. until 12:00 - 13:00. Same for craig petty for a sleep time of 00:00 to 06:00, but he sometimes also goes earlier or later to bed (and also same for jason england: 10:00 - 16:00 - on sunday he usually sleeps longer Smile ).

Now check the plot of the "newguy" acc. You can clearly see that he sleeps between 06:00 and 14:00 with the small exception of 4 posts in a night of a tuesday (in a timespan of 20 years). If other people would also use the account which live in another timezone, then there would be no gap for the sleeping time. If other people in the same timezone would also use the account, then there would likely be a smaller gap because different people usually don't go at exactly the same time to bed. Also Jason England mentioned that the acc was started to be used collectivly in 2007. The acc made 3 posts in total in 2007.

Here are 2 of the 3 posts from 2007:

"I told Webber about your little dinner party performance and he said he is not going to give you any more treats if you are bad again."

"I was hanging around when JG did his 'peeks' for RPW and Webber. Do not assume that the fact that they were polite and entertained means that they were fooled."
ricklaxmagic
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Quote:
On Feb 11, 2023, leipzisch wrote:
I wonder if Wobbler thought about the impact that making criticisms under a pseudonym would have on those he trashed?

Of course he anticipated a negative impact on their popularity and sales. But what about inculcating the feeling that the community didn't value your output? Disliked you?

I hope the man is truly sorry for his nefarious behaviour. Truly sorry.


I hope to ask him this myself. It's easy for me to imagine that he was unaware...he's so confident and forceful...sometimes I feel like people like this can't relate to me...but also I know sometimes people that are hurt are the ones who hurt others (sometimes without fully realizing), so hopefully this can be a time for growth.

I agree with 90% of what's said on this thread...the one place I might differ...I do not think banishing these guys or boycotting them is the right thing. I think we can instead use this as transitional moment, to try to get everyone on the same page: Trying to entertain people with this performing art that we all love.
ablanathanalba
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Quote:
On Feb 11, 2023, ricklaxmagic wrote:
You must be new here....people on this forum are supposed to hate me and talk about NOT buying my tricks. Smile

I guess I didn't get that memo, as I am a big fan! Full disclosure, I found you a bit smarmy the first time I saw you (had a similar reaction to Mr. Petty as well) but quickly became an admirer. I hope you continue to create and share. Sending positive and healing thoughts to your wife.
jhostler
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And then there were three. This is beginning to feel like a gutter play on "I am Spartacus."
Schlawiner
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Hm, the upload seems to be not working here in the forum and I can't edit the post anymore. Here would be a link to the image: https://ibb.co/wS7sZJC
Iforindia123
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LOL Rick, you fell into the same emoji hole that I did!!!
ricklaxmagic
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Quote:
On Feb 11, 2023, Iforindia123 wrote:
I Rick, you are most welcome ???? I have been a member of the Magic Café for over a year maybe two but just jump in every once in a while to check on the latest releases. I think I have only posted a couple of times before but just felt that it was time that people like myself who tend to shy from posting showed support for those that are oppressed - I knew about Craig Petty from the videos he made but did not know that you also were affected by the bullying nature of certain individuals. I know too the effects that these things can have on people as I suffer anxiety and depression and it is not nice what these people are doing. It has been said that it was a bit of a joke between them all - oh great then, it was for a bit of fun! They have no concept of the hurt they cause both mentally and also to people’s careers. I hope too that you start to enjoy the freedom of creating and producing magic tricks again now that these people are being exposed for what they are.



It's so brave of you (and many others on this thread) to stand up and support Craig here.

And for me...it's nothing new. I was bullied since I was a kid. I saw the joy it brought others when every other kid in the class was passing around 'The Ricky Touch' (which was like cooties, but specific to me), and I saw that Alan had his proudest moment at camp when he declared "I'm the fattest one at this camp but I'm still cooler than Ricky!"...he got so much praise for that. And for sure it was a 'game' when Aaron and Tristan pushed me around and to the ground walking home from the bus... FOR SURE the bullies see bullying as a game and they take pleasure from it.
Joe Roberts
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I have to say I love this thread and I hope more people get called out and call themselves out.

A (very) quick scan of "newguys" posts show these two posts about Rick Lax effects.

In a thread on the Binary Code trick -

"Is Lewis Jones mentioned in the credits?"

In a thread on the Hair tie Coloration Trick -

"Tom J and Chad S are correct about how old and well-known this thing is. But the customer is always right, so if you really love this for $6.00, look at what you can get for almost half the price (Pay particular attention to the step-by-step illustrations on the cover)
Lots more inside!"

And for context this is what newguy wrote about Red.

"This should not be sold by Mr. Petty, bad form if not outright theft"

The sock-puppet nature of the account is pathetic, but is there more to the bullying than this? Even Craig now agrees with that last post. I'd like to hear more about what went on behind the scenes. Do any of Craig's videos give specifics on that?
leipzisch
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Quote:
On Feb 11, 2023, Schlawiner wrote:
I don't think that the "newguy" acc was really shared by multiple people (but maybe the acc was started with this idea).

The reason I think the account was never shared is because of the timestamps of the postings. I downloaded the timestamps of all 411 postings of the newacc account and plotted them based on the weekday and time of posting. Using such a plot you can easily see when a person is active on the forum and when the person is sleeping (not making posts in the forum).

In the attachment you can see the plots when the users craig petty, mac_stone, jason england and newguy made all their posts here in the forum (I also plottet craig petty, mac_stone and jason england to have something to compare). Timestamps are plottet with the timezone of the forum. For example, you can see that mac_stone goes to bed around 06:00 and sleeps approx. until 12:00 - 13:00. Same for craig petty for a sleep time of 00:00 to 06:00, but he sometimes also goes earlier or later to bed (and also same for jason england: 10:00 - 16:00 - on sunday he usually sleeps longer Smile ).

Now check the plot of the "newguy" acc. You can clearly see that he sleeps between 06:00 and 14:00 with the small exception of 4 posts in a night of a tuesday (in a timespan of 20 years). If other people would also use the account which live in another timezone, then there would be no gap for the sleeping time. If other people in the same timezone would also use the account, then there would likely be a smaller gap because different people usually don't go at exactly the same time to bed. Also Jason England mentioned that the acc was started to be used collectivly in 2007. The acc made 3 posts in total in 2007.

Here are 2 of the 3 posts from 2007:

"I told Webber about your little dinner party performance and he said he is not going to give you any more treats if you are bad again."

"I was hanging around when JG did his 'peeks' for RPW and Webber. Do not assume that the fact that they were polite and entertained means that they were fooled."



Thank goodness we are basically geeks.

The truth will be (statistically and through painstaking research) revealed!
Wednesday
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Eric Mead and Jason England explaining on this thread that the "newguy" account was supposed to be an account for well-known creators from the scene to remain anonymous is fine. Having anonymity on the internet is a perfectly acceptable reason to have a faceless account. Nobody has an issue with wanting anonymity to browse. I'm glad they cleared and acknowledge that that it wasn't originally for ill-intents and purposes. However, just isn't the case as the "newguy" account's post history indicates.

There's no explanation from Michael and friends of the 20 years of history of sock puppetry to either make someone else look bad or themselves (Michael Weber and company) look good by pretending to be "huge fans" of their own work to boost their own sales with fake appraisal.

The message I got from Eric Mead's post was: "Guys... I want to support my friend, Michael by saying, It wasn't just Michael who has been posting for the past 20 years bashing other creators and circle jerking themselves, it could've been anyone of us. But, probably not me though. Also something something something book something something something"

No acknowledgement of the dubious actions whatsoever.

I rarely post on the Café, but this just has me so disappointed it's hard to give the benefit of a doubt to anyone involved with the "newguy" account at this point.
dirtyfoucault
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I'm ashamed to say I've said horrible things about Rick on this forum in the past, despite loving and consistently using so many of his releases over the years. Tornado, Diamonds, To-Do Voodoo - he's just a brilliant creator and teacher of magic. I suppose my negativity arose from the influence of reading other posts on here. It seemed like the norm to hate on Lax, so to my shame I joined in a few times. I thought because he comes across as rich and incredibly confident that poking fun wouldn't affect him. But that's dumb. Any one of us can be afflicted by depression, anxiety and poor mental health. I know I am. Every day is a struggle and while these green pages can be an addictive source of soap opera and magical inspiration they are also a psychic drain. Rick is right. Let's take this moment as an opportunity to be less rubbish.
Iforindia123
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Hopefully these individuals will either change their ways or remain silent so that we can continue to enjoy the great magic being created/produced now and in the future un-impeded!. Craig has a brilliant mind and should be allowed to create freely without the worry of someone looking over his shoulder. So pleased as well that you will start creating again Rick and I will look forward to seeing what you come up with in the future.
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