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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3163 Posts |
Quote:
On Feb 22, 2023, Close.Up.Dave wrote: Dave, it sounds like you are headed in the right direction. Stay Inspired. Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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Fedora Special user Arizona, usa 746 Posts |
I'd like to expand a bit on what I'm contacting the venues about to get
some more knowledgeable opinions. Quite a few restaurants have banquet rooms they don't use most days, I've been approaching these venues about using these rooms for a floor show. Essentially the patrons would have the option to dine in the show room at a premium table charge, and the recipes would be split between me and the venue. Nothing revolutionary, but if I can find a way for it to be mutually beneficial between me and the restaurant, there may be enough takers to make it profitable. Anyone have an opinion on the matter? |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10587 Posts |
Am I correct in you are not paying for or renting the room? If you are not what you are speaking of here is a very light, modified 2-Wall arrangement.
What is your reason or purpose for doing this? My immediate first thought is what is in it for the venue/restaurant? They could already make the same profit from the food to have them eating in the dining room, so what you are asking is his customers to pay a premium price to dine with entertainment? Will he make any more? Perhaps just a split of the premium extra price (if I understood you correct)? Always think about what's in it for them and is it enough incentive to change or shake things up. I'm guessing if there were interested in something like this in their empty room they'd have thought about something like this and done it themselves. Maybe not, who knows. But let's go with the idea. How does everyone make money? What kind of money could be made for the effort? Who will promote this and how? And with what money? Who's money? So what, it would run about $10 more to dine and see the show, then that money would be split between you and the venue? That's $5 per patron, so if you get 25 people to do this it would be $125 for each of you? I'm all for these types of arrangements as long as they are win-win for both parties and worth the effort. He would need additional serving staff I'm guessing, and would there be service (food or drink) during the show? What kind of restaurant is this? What are their normal average ticket prices (not tickets for a show but their dining order tickets)? Just a few initial thoughts to consider. Recipes was meant to be receipts, correct? |
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Fedora Special user Arizona, usa 746 Posts |
*receipts. not "recipes", they can keep those, I can't cook anyway.
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Fedora Special user Arizona, usa 746 Posts |
Thanks for the thoughts, they're helpful.
Yes, you are correct it would be a 2 wall as opposed to a rental. As for the purpose, I believe it may be profitable on it's own, Additionally, these venues are usually rented for the events I target, having a residency of sorts in the venue, performing for their patrons, could lead to spin off work. The upside for the restaurant is where things get tricky. There isn't any upside besides the share of the table charges as far as i can tell. The downside would be the additional strain put on the staff. I believe this would only work out at somewhat higher end restaurants, otherwise the patrons would be less inclined to pay the additional charge, To use somewhat more optimistic math, if a restaurant has a $50 per person average, than a 5 dollar per person increase, ($10 divided by 2) would be a 10% per interested person increase. At 25 patrons I don't believe it would be worth it for either of us, it probably need to be at least 40 or 50. Actually selling the patrons is the next issue, the restaurant would offer the upgrade to folks making reservation for that day, additionally, some advertising in the establishment. The cost of any additional advertising cost would fall on me. Yes, there would be service during the show. My computer keeps deleting what I write, so I'm going to publish this for now. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
You haven’t begun to list the issues.
You are now tapping into servers, bartenders and line cooks. How do they get paid? The cooks in particular are a very high nut to cover because they are not tipped. Electric, water and clean up have to happen as well. (In other words there is often a great reason these rooms are closed.) Who collects the money and pays tax on what? Awful tricky that question. Who provides tech work for you? Also how do you make the room look like a showroom instead of you performing in a banquet hall? None of these are easy solutions. Heck if you do it in summer the electric bill alone in the cavernous rooms is high. Getting people in the room is another problem all it’s own. The general public does not like magic quite as much as magicians unfortunately. It costs to create awareness. Yes these arrangements can work. But if you have just a landlord you will not have an easy time. To have a “residency” (By the way everyone should stop using that word because nobody seems to use it correctly.) or a recurring show is just not going to be easy to articulate how it is profitable for the venue. Maybe if you were doing close up magic there and used that as a springboard to do shows and create awareness that way it would be an easier sell. Once the ownership likes you it is a much smaller ask for the room. And as always is the show ready for this? Don’t forget they are not thinking of it as just the up charge. They think of the entire ticket price and the experience they get. Well that is enough for now, but there are a lot more things to worry about. Hopefully we keep opinions to a minimum. We’ll see.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10587 Posts |
Quote:
On Feb 27, 2023, Dannydoyle wrote: Hilarious, and so true! |
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Fedora Special user Arizona, usa 746 Posts |
Thanks for the input Danny.
"Who collects the money and pays tax on what? Awful tricky that question." Funny enough, I've been pondering that question for a week, when I figure it out I'll let you know. Offhand I'll say they add the charge to the check, and distribute the agreed percentage to me, as for tax, we can both write off the additional cost of revenue to ourselves. (This will be harder to figure out for them than me) "You are now tapping into servers, bartenders and line cooks. How do they get paid?" If indeed.com is anything to go on, pretty poorly. "“residency” (By the way everyone should stop using that word because nobody seems to use it correctly.)" I believe the first time I wrote "presence", but by the second time the computer deleted my message, I got mentally lazy. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Actually servers, bartenders and line cooks can and often do get paid quite well.
As for the money distribution you will be creating a HUGE accounting issue. It is not as easy as “let’s do a show” is more the point in trying to make In the end. Try will also want to know at what point they start making money.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Fedora Special user Arizona, usa 746 Posts |
"Actually servers, bartenders and line cooks can and often do get paid quite well."
Okey, I admit it, I didn't actually look it up. Thanks for all the things to consider, all the possible objections and down sides are better to know than not know. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
If you don’t cover them, and more, I can or much guarantee a no. By not covering then you show a severe lack of knowledge to the venue.
Maybe a special menu. Who knows. The possibilities are endless.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3163 Posts |
Fedora,
You asked for opinions so here is another one, based on experience, but still just an opinion and a few thoughts. I would never raise my prices in my restaurant so that I could split it with you. However, if I had an extra room, I would welcome you selling tickets for a special meal and free show in that area on a certain night. It would be a meal somewhat different than what's on my menu. It would also be priced just for that. $25.00 per person and you would keep $10.00 I would promote it inside the restaurant and expect you to do some type of promoting outside. For example, handing out adverts to the local non-food places. Place an ad in a local handout paper. Promote it on your Facebook page. (Have Facebook friends share the post for an opportunity to win a free ticket to the show/meal. I provide the servers and they keep their tips like usual. (You could mention that after the show) Only Twenty-five couples would equal $500 for you. A win for me because it's all extra plus the extra restaurant promotion. Sure it would be extra work on your part, to begin with, but could be worth it in the end. Of course, prices would depend on your area and the type of eatery. Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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Close.Up.Dave Inner circle Behind you! 2956 Posts |
I actually have this type of residency. The only limitation is I don't have more access to the room more than once a month because they book a lot of acts there. Regardless, I'm always either above 3/4 sold and have even sold out a few times.
This hotel I'm in actually has a cabaret theatre. It's sweet. There's a tech and everything. They have dedicated staff to the night. I do basically no marketing and I keep half of the ticket sales. I have the best deal in the venue as most other acts don't even get that much (supposedly). If I were to build this from the ground up again (which, who knows, I may have to one day) I have all of the equipment to host the show in a random spot. Lights, sound system, everything. Does it need to have food? No, but I like my show to be a dinner show. I'm getting very few inquiries after my show. This is due to the venue not sharing the email list, as well as me not capturing emails after the show. This is a problem I'm working to solve before the next show. I'm treating my corporate show marketing completely differently from this residency since my original thinking was, "If everyone sees me, they won't help but think of me later." It's true, I do get more inquiries thanks to having a better presence in town, but it's not enough to sustain a corporate-focused business. I'm in a very medium market so there are already fewer events than in the larger cities. If you decide to start a public show, start it as a branch of business independent of your other shows. It will lead to it being more profitable and also self-sustaining. If you have to start using your private bookings to pay for your public show, you're just robbing different sides of the business and eventually, something will break. In terms of finding a new venue, they have to believe in the concept as a stand-alone thing. They need to be happy with the money plus the presence it adds to their venue. There are countless restaurants, banquet halls, event venues, hotels, and street corners where entertainment can take place. Pick one and commit, and try to grow as you go. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Dave that is not a residency, and it is nothing like what he is talking about. It us a dedicated theater space you get baked at once a month. That is cool, but absolutely nothing like what he wants to build.
People show up expecting to see shows. It is no more like what he is doing than a comedy club. Tom the restaurant will lose a whole lot of money with that way of doing business.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10587 Posts |
I wanna get baked once a month!
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Close.Up.Dave Inner circle Behind you! 2956 Posts |
Quote:
On Feb 28, 2023, Dannydoyle wrote: It’s absolutely a form of a residency lol And even if it’s not exactly what he wants to build he has to consider all avenues of what he’s attempting to approach. I’ve hosted my show in steakhouses, event spaces, country clubs, and more. It’s a self hosted residency, in conjunction with a venue. It doesn’t matter if they have a stage or a blank banquet room, he has to start somewhere. |
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tihani New user 48 Posts |
Maybe everyone should clarify what their definition of "residency" is..
I've always thought of it as a gig you are being paid to perform at on a regular basis. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
A form of residency? That’s new.
It almost sounds like you want to make something seem like a bigger deal than it is. If you want to call it that go ahead. People in the industry are seeing as a form of puffery.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Quote:
On Feb 28, 2023, tihani wrote: Think of it as your house. Your residence. It is actually pretty self explanatory. A regular gig a a theater once a month isn’t your residence at all. Think Cirque’, Penn and Teller and so forth. A theater you get to use every so often not so much.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3163 Posts |
Some people have more than one house. The main one is usually considered your home or residence,
the others are your part-time residences. In the end, it's six of one and half a dozen of the other, as they say. Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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