She may have blown me off, although with the amount of problems occurring,
it's not Unfeasible that she had bigger concerns.

"(and for the love of heaven please stop wearing rubber bands on your wrist*)" arm*

"You went out on that platform hoping someone would ask you to do a trick. Everyone here knows it."
If everyone knows it, everyone's mistaken.

I'm going to tell the whole story.

I was walking by the water with this person and she pointed out a rocking floating deck,
I suggested standing on it. (i wish there was a way of making this first part sound good.)

While we were there, this group of folks varying in degrees of drunkeness, approached and asked
her to take a group photo.

At this point I was looking off the side, at a tethered canoe, contemplating standing on it.
(you're probably right about the judgement thing)

At that moment, I was saved by a sound, "See that guy? He's a magician".

"Really?" an older lady in the crowd asked, "show us something".

In hindsight, insisting on getting off the pier would have been the second smartest move.
(saying "no" is the first)

My usual default is to produce a sponge ball, I saw no reason to change this strategy.

As you probably can guess, in the span of the routine, one of the weightless balls blew out
of her hand, rolled down the deck, and into the water.

She then looked me right in the eye and said: "want me to grab it out for you?"
"no, I have plenty."

I than place a ball in my left hand, it was at that moment the inebriated man spotted
the bands.

He lunged his hand through my sleeve, up my arm, and flicked the bands.
He only had one hand because he was holding his cigar in the other.

He said:" hehehehe" breathing smoke in my face the whole time.

I finished the routine, getting the reactions you can only get from drunk folks.

Afterward someone in the group said: " do you have a card?"
"No"

And that's the full story, I left soon after.

As for having time to meet clients, some venues have specific days to show
off the venue to potential clients, which would allow me to see several at once.

This particular venue doesn't seem to work that way, making it non applicable.

Thanks for the tip on not burning bridges.

Yes, I wrote a lengthy post that got deleted but was basically saying the same thing about marketing before you are market-ready and burning bridges that could be worth decent recurring revenue later as perception is reality to many people. Their first impression will be what they always see yu as, even 10 years down the roads when you have ten years more knowledge and experience. And it has nothing to do with your performance or magic skills.

Then don't even get me started about magicians that always want to do tricks for everyone, ESPECIALLY at business meetings. This is where the show and the business need to be completely separated. There was an article some years ago in one of the publications of one of the associations I belong to, either agencies or promoters, I forget which, that stated in most business situations when a magician does magic as part of the meeting, or a sample or demonstration, the bookings odds dropped 35%.

I also think everything we've heard about is from the approach and perspective of an amateue which of course is fine, we all have to start somewhere, but when you start making such meeting and sales presentations you are a professional, and so far nothing here is even close to professionalism.

This is why I always talk about sequential learning - learning and doing things in the right order, including becoming a professional first, or you are just paving a path poor problems as we've seen here with others. I wish I could just shake newbie and explain how serious and detrimental this is. It is one of the things I (and so many others) wish I had known or someone to tell me back when I was starting out, and I had far more obstacles working against me than most. (See my new thread for more on this.)

Always remember - you don't know what you don't know, and also you don't know how much you don't know, be careful who you listen to, you never get a second chance for make a first impression, and that impressions you make will stay with you and be what people will always see you as (good open mic example from Danny above, and as I cover in my Open Mike and Getting Your First Performances books.)

So much more to say but I'm not sure about it.

Man the more we hear about this the more cringeworthy it is. Control is at play in everything you do, sometimes they have control, other times you do. When you operate as a professional you learn this very quickly and how to use this control to you advantage. I'm not sure you (and others here) could handle a full critique.

You just don’t see all the mistakes do you? Again being so new is the issue.

Funny how folks seemed to just know you were a magician. Especially since you try to hide it so much lol.

And do you think the bands on the *arm makes it better, or worse?

Also just food for thought here. Scarcity is valuable. If you are only at one venue and none of the others CAN get you, then if you’re good (If mind you.) then there is a demand created and a value to the venue that they can exclusively secure your services in that particular setting. If everyone and anyone can get you then that value is nonexistent.

In other words there are many ways to create value that doesn’t necessarily mean money. That is certainly one form of value but there are ways to do so. All of them start with a new perspective to see them from then that which you are currently using.

After 45 years whenever this comes up (and trust me as a hypnotist it happens far more than with magician) the only answer needed is quite simple..."No thanks, you'll have to come and see my show." I won't dissect the many positive benefits to this but it serves many purposes.

Walking around with props and then claiming you don’t want someone to ask you to perform is just… well it is what it is.

Hey mindpro, I can't speak for others, but I can take as much critique as you
care to give, I figure it's better to know stuff than not know.

Obviously if you or anyone else here has anything to say that the mods
wouldn't like, feel free to pm or email.

And I know it's cringeworthy, I was there.

I had my props because this was a Saturday evening, and I had them
with me the whole day.

None of these were visible, well, shouldn't have been visible.

I could have left them in the car, but it's possible the person
could have asked, and I didn't see the harm in being prepared.

That statistic is interesting though.

I was neither hiding nor spreading the word, once again,
a female was present during the tent exchange, she was with
me most the rest of the time.

If anything made me stand out, it's that I was the only person who
brought a jacket to an Arizona event in march.

Edit. I forgot two things.

Yes, arm is better than wrist, as my arm is covered.

And mindpro, sorry I missed your message before it was deleted.

So now, in hindsight with several days of review and replaying it all in your mind, what did you learn? What were your takeaways, mistakes, and lessons learned?

This will be a great starting point for moving forward.

I still am not clear on what you are hoping to get from this? Just to be on a "preferred vendor list" doesn't really mean anything. A-1 Plumbing could be on their preferred vendor list, so what? Many venues will not even have or know what you're talking about (that's why I asked you where you got this idea from?) with a preferred vendors list. Even if they happen to, it seems like a shallow goal unless you have something more specific in mind. How does this help you in your mind? How does this help the venue?

I applaud you for claiming to be able to take as much critique as you are offered. I deal with hundreds of magicians, most can't.

In reality he hasn’t shown that ability yet. Do you might want to hold your applause lol.

I'll start with the vendor list question.

Most venues who have a list gives it to clients either at booking
or during the venue tour.

Some lists are quite large, others have only one or two in each category.

some venues don't allow outside vendors, so you have to be on a list, this
specific venue does allow outside vendors.

By being the only non DJ entertainment, there's a chance that it will get
folks' attention, or at least that's the theory.

This vendor list is given to clients, it's separate from the vendor list
with plumbers and the like.

The list I'm referring to lists preferred caterers, photographers, DJ/MC,
Transportation, Officiates, etc.

The upside to the venue is regularly working with the same folks, and not
having to deal with people not familiar with the venue.
It's also a service to the client by having a list of useful services on
the ready.

Some venues charge a fee to be on a venue list, which if I was a client might
be somewhat questionable, this venue doesn't charge as it turns out.

As for mistakes, the first is not insisting on an appointment when there wasn't
an event going on, this prevented a longer conversation, and a conversation with
the owner.

the second was not yet bringing up a way to interduce my services to clients
that's less (as Danny pointed out) passive.

The third was stepping on that pier.

Forth was starting this thread before I followed up, though in hindsight
I'm glad this thread was started.

I'm sure there's more, but that's what has been on my mind.

Ps. do folks really ask you to hypnotize them that often?

Almost literally every time I tell them I’m hypnotist they ask. And I don’t have to wear rubber bands and carry sponges to con them into it.

Yes, literally everytime.

You seem to indicate if a vendor is not on a list at some places they don’t allow them. Doubtful. They would turn away my event if I bring my own photographer? But if true it is far more questionable than paying to be on the list. I mean you thought about a percentage for the venue. Isn’t that paying to be on the list? Yet you don’t see yourself as questionable. Again this points to your “me” focus and not considering what others see. Giving them a percentage is paying to be on the list.

You seem to think always working with the same people is an upside. I see it as a disadvantage. They know what they want.

I highly doubt anyone looks at a vendor list and sees “magician” and suddenly knows how it will fit at their event. A DJ is different. They know they need music. Bands are the same. Magic needs to be sold to them actively. Nobody really understands what can be offered. I guess most don’t not nobody. Most don’t go in thinking of using a magician, and if they do they already have one in mind. This is why passive selling isn’t great and catering to the same people isn’t a plus.

Thanks for the thoughts Danny.

Yes, there are many venues that avoid outside vendors of all sorts,
some ban it, others will let you use an outside vendor for an
additional fee.

I agree the practice is questionable, but it's not particularly unusual.

Obviously, I would only agree to a fee if it was the existing policy,
though once again, I'm not a fan of the premise due to it possibly
not being in the venue client's best interests.

Yes, I am completely aware of what a preferred vendor list is and also the perceptions that accompanies them. I also think I still don't see what your interest is with this though. Having owned and operated similar types of venues as well as consulted with many event venues, it doesn't happen like you believe it to be. IF they have one, most only offer it if the clients specifically asks. Most do not just offer it, and if they do I would be greatly concerned with the perception and what it represents.

This is why a proper referral system has many more benefits and advantage than a preferred vendor list. Also remember any other business on such a list will affect you as well. This must be an older venue or owners as this is something that was common long before the internet and not so common these days, and not for the purposes you are thinking.

Do you think they are going to recommend you or vouch for you? Is that what you think being on this list represents? I still don't see the benefit to the venue (and also really to you?.) So many magicians will claim the benefit is to "entertain their guests" which is not anything of real benefit or value.

You seem to have the impression that being on this type of list is a good and positive thing. I strongly suggest you do some research and due diligence. ESPECIALLY if you (as you mentioned in an above post) are thinking of doing this to other area venues. Your area is not that big to have room for mistakes. This is very similar to working with event planners often with the same lack of results and poor positioning and offerings.

Danny is right, this is not how you present and sell magic services to get results. A magician mean nothing. It needs context, presentation, purpose, and education.

Thanks for the insight mindpro.

Based on your post I assume you believe a magician on such lists is ineffective,
I have no data or experience to refute that as I've only been on this list for a few days.

I assume there's more effective ways of working with venues and planners, I would
ask here, but I doubt many folks would want to join the discussion this deep in,
so I'll start a new thread on the subject.
https://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/view......forum=44

Sorry if my prior post came off as patronizing, but your mention of plumbers made me
believe you were conflating two different kinds of lists.

No that is not at all what I am meaning. These lists have certain connotations within the community and industry. I would question that you (or anyone) would want to be affiliated with that and the existing perceptions of such lists.

As I said some market research would likely reveal all types of things you are not considering or at the very least you are unaware of. My concern, like in previous posts, would be the perception you get attached to yourself and your business within your community.

All of this and so many of the things you are experiencing (even if you don't realize it yet) is all part of your missing foundational process.

Look at who is also on the list as that could be your first consideration.

I have heard a few negative things about these lists in the past, are you implying that
the general image of these things, and by extension the folks on them, are negatively
viewed in the industry at large?

If so, a thread titled "Is being viewed as a magician a negative" turning into
"Is being on a vendor list viewed as a negative" would be an interesting way
to bring this thread full circle.

Not necessarily from an industry perspective, but to the shopping prospects themselves looking for a venue for their events. On a very surface level someone without any knowledge may think they (PVL) are a nice thing, but anyone who begins to shop around and views several venues starts to get a bit deeper into it and they will realize this to be different than what it seems.

They will quickly notice that most on these lists are not the best , most credible, or most popular in their field. Their choices of who they know and are considering if not on the list will make them question those who are.

As I said, you really need to put more effort into the understanding of A.) the venues you have in mind to approach (not to mention what you are offering), and even just as important B.) their customers, and both of their thought process, perceptions, believes, interests, and needs. Not on the surface but on an actual real level. That should be the starting point from which you begin.

This is why I always tell performers to pick a market or perhaps two, and then go deeper and become established in those so you do not just operate willy-nilly in all types ofg general surface bookings. You will not sustain as a full-time performer just willy-nilly.

Some of the tactics you are doing may be fine for the kids party market, but I'm talking about the actual events market, the wedding market, and other such events and celebrations.

Well I'm glad you got this take away. I have often talked about how entertainment business has its own set of rules which are quite different, sometimes opposite, from conventional business. This is one of them.

Do not mix the show and the business. You must work on the timetables of the prospect you're are seeking. A Saturday afternoon and evening is showtime for such a venue. It is their time to focus on hosting the best event they can to meet and exceed the needs of each client on their books for that day/time period. This is performance time - not a time for business, meetings, or to hear from some unknown magician trying to drum up some bookings.

You always talk to the decision-maker. When you went the decision-maker and they brushed you off and handed you off to someone beneath them. First red flag. Even if she is the person who could in some way assist you, it is ALWAYS better if it comes to her from the owner or decision-maker. You dealing with her was just less than ideal. Have you ever stopped to think they may not have a magician on their list for a reason? Maybe a reason the event coordinator you got directed to isn't even aware of?

How would you like it if right in the middle of a show someone interrupted you (which is really what you did) and started to want to ask you questions about her kids party or that they are a PTA mom from an elementary school and wanted to get some information about... It is not the time or the place and furthermore you would start to even question the person's scruples for interrupting your show in front of the guests you are entertaining. Not cool at all.

Then you are still avoiding telling us any real information about what you are offering them. So not only are you crashing their event flow, but you are not even presenting them with an incredible offer or proposal? This is not how I'd want or aim to start a professional relationship.

Ok, maybe you're new and we all have to learn this, but this is a prime example where some education could prevent such mistakes and better prepare you for such business tactics. If I gave you a list of the top 100 things you should be doing to try to build relationships and generate bookings, this, getting on a preferred vendor list - even worse yet BY SOLICITATION, would be # 101. There are sooooo many things you should be doing and focusing on before this, education and gaining knowledge being #1.

I'm glad you got this takeaway, but am still wondering if you truly understand the whole scenario in it's totality?

I've also noticed you haven't shared in all of this with us what you hoped to gain be being on the PVL? I mean of course an attempt to generate a few bookings would be obvious surface answer, but I'm talking in addition to this or is that the extent of your thoughts? Are you thinking by being on this list your phone will ring? Other than being on the list is there something else you get? I'm still unclear what the venue gets out of this or benefits, and what is the value you are offering? If the goal was to just get on the list maybe you need better goals?