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Werner G. Seitz
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You might be correct..no offense..I simply reread both... Smile because I enjoy it..

BUT, still, I wouldn't be without the info/entertainment hidden in *The Art of Krowd Keeping*..

My view to all this simply is: study as much as possible..
YES, I know there is a lot of garbage out there..
I've been in magic for -by now- almost 54 years, when counting from the early years as a *little* boy, when seeing the very first magic performance, but my experience is, *Magic* is a lifetime interest and as the late John Ramsay used to say..:

SE each magician you have a chance to se, if he's bad, your pleased with yourself, if he's good, you can learn and pick up some idea..the same goes -IMHO- for books/DVDs, tapes..

IF one truly is a magic-buff, one simply has to read/see as much as possible, the good, the bad, everything..

BUT once again, I really 100% count the mentioned Gazzo book as one of the BEST!!!

Only my opinion, but I stick to it..your opinion is accepted to, of course!

People are different, have different opinions..and that's what makes life in magic interesting and worthwhile..

That's the fun of it.. for some people involved in it..I'm just one of them..

I love a good argument, because I love to *think* about magic and that's why I am posting here, people agree or disagree..it is food for thought for me..

I love it..and it ALL makes me *thinking* more about my own impressions and feeling re magic.....

JFYI, I've meet them all in person/life -and talked with them- and I enjoyed it.

Dai Vernon (right here in CPH together with Jay Ose Aug. 29th 1964)..he was always very generous when commenting other performers work...and nope, no bragging, but I let you have what he wrote in my copy of
*The Dai Vernon Book of Magic*:

Very best regards
to an extremely
clever artist
Werner Seitz
Sincerely
Dai Vernon
Aug. 29th 1964.

Am I proud of that?
You bet I am.

All I did where a few card routines as well as my strike second deal.

His comment was, that there where so many well known cardsters in the USA, but my handling actually was better.

Bragging?

No, just memories from way back..he was MUCH to kind with all his comments..and yes I too remember Jay Ose. What a gentlemen, as was Dai.
Others I met, Albert Goshman -we took breakfast together a couple of times at diff. conventions.

Fred Kaps, meet him in private only twice, first time in Enschede/Holland 1959, can't recall the year, at a convention where I had the pleasure to be at the same table.

Tony Slydini, Bologna 1960, at a convention, was honoured to be invited - because I had impressed one of the big names in Italia with some cardwork- to a private party where he performed for magicians and Henk Vermeyden -to get closed a deal re his lecture tour to Holland..
Met him later early in the morning after breakfast at the hotel for a chat.

Why do I mention this?

Just to let you know, that I'm a real magicbuff.
I like magic, I do it (not as often as I want to) and I enjoy it..

I've been inspired by all these people and any time I would read and study more of their lifes story.
I'm not anymore after *secret* or methods.
I've enough to play with for the rest of my life, but I'm always interested in how these ppl went through their life..what happened on the road to their success and failures , aso. aso...
It's simply the interest that drives me, and I think more people should be interested in the *background* of those people that *made* it..like Don Alan, like Al Goshman, like a lot of others. Smile
We all have different angles to *magic* and we all have our value and justice inside this field..the fact that we are posting here shows we all do care. Smile
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....

( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might
as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto... Smile )
Sir T
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A very well put post!
Danny Hustle
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Quote:
On 2004-08-07 18:15, Sir T wrote:
However this does not change my feelings on the book and after reading Gazzo book on the cup and ball, I would have passed on the art of keeping a krowd, as the cup and ball has more complete information on busking. A review to follow.




Sir T,

Probably to the surprise of many considering I am a co-author of the Krowd Keepers book I do not disagree with this statement.

Gazzo's new cups and balls book written with Simon is not only an excellent reference for the trick proper it is one of the best nuggets on busking I have ever read.

For someone who has some experience working the street I would say pass right by Krowd Keepers and head straight at the cups book.

The cups book isn't good, it is great!

I also agree with your comments about the uncensored tape. Unfortunately, most people who do not know what they are watching fast forward right by the thirty minute part that I and probably you find to be the meat and potatoes of the entire tape. The section where Gazzo is crowd building at the ren faire.

The only defense I will provide for Krowd Keepers is this: It was designed to be read by magicians who have some performance experience but have never worked the street. You have worked the street and much of the book probably seemed obvious to you. Jim, Gazzo, and I wanted to provide a nuts and bolts primer for those wanting to get out there and try it.

As far as lines go I agree with you, it would have been nice to include some more in the book. They were purposely left out so that they could be marketed as a separate item.

The reason for this was not commercial, it was decided to be done that way so that those who just wanted the lines did not have to pay more for the inclusion of Krowd Keepers.

Gazzo and I kicked around the idea of combining both books and Gazzo thought that his cups book would be a better place for them. In the cups book you get every line he does during the cups plus a few from other parts of the act.

The cups book also includes a ton of information on busking. A lot of it I feel might be less obvious to someone new to the street and they might miss the gold mine contained within. Much like missing the crowd building section of the uncensored tape.

The reason I say that is because I know it is the stuff I would have missed before I got out on the street and fell on my face a couple of times.

I think Krowd Keepers fills that gap quite nicely. Perhaps in the future Gazzo might combine the Lines book with Krowd Keepers and it will be a more complete text instead of the lecture note format it is now in. Krowd Keeper was written to be lecture notes and not so much a "book".

You know, now that I think of it if he decides to reprint he could combine all three books and I think that would be a book anyone would want to have. Krowd Keepers as a forward section, the cups as the center, and the lines at the end. I know I'd buy it.

Anyway, great thoughts and an honest opinion. I'm glad your overall impression of the booklet was positive. Thanks for sharing them.

Best,

Dan-
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"MT is one of the reasons we started this board! I’m so sick of posts being deleted without any reason given, and by unknown people at that." - Steve Brooks Sep 7, 2001 8:38pm
©1999-2014 Daniel Denney all rights reserved.
mslj
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One of the pleasures of writing the Cups book was that Gazzo's routine has such a lot to offer and thus we had the space to elaborate on points that could have been written in one line.

I attended several of Gazzo's masterclasses/workshops on the UK tour and he spent a great deal of time on vanishing a ball with a simple pass. He could have just shown the class what to do but for the full emphasis he spoke about timing, hand position, speed and so on. Similarly with the cups book Gazzo and I were able to expand and explore on as many points as we liked and in as much detail as we liked.

With Krowd Keeper not only would that have been difficult but was beyond the remit of the book (by the way when does a leaflet become a book and why?).

Gazzo and I spoke at length about not only combining all three of his books in hardback but also adding to them with a Masterclass with regards to his whole routine. The result would be indepth discussions on working with a TT, floating card/card to mouth, rope work, his routining and so on.

Running at about 250 pages, hardbound, still with a reasonable price.

Finally, I've got to say I'm chuffed with the feedback to the cups book, it's a shame my marriage broke apart whhile writing it - Gazzo and his *** deadline! (Tis a joke - just!)

Simon
Jim Wilder
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One element about both of these books that I particularly enjoy is that they effectively communicate on a personal level. There in a line in the introduction of the Cups and Balls book about wanting to relate information in the same manner as it would be related over a cup of coffee and a couple of hours to kill. I feel both books achieved this masterfully.

Did I find any earth-shattering information? No. I still recommend both books to every worker. Even if these books are "preaching to the choir" as I am sure they are for many, it is still nice to see insight from others- even if it is exactly what you already know. There were several times when reading both books where I could genuinely relate to topics at hand such as working with kids, timing, copying, and many others.

Also, I think a hard back edition containing all three books would please just about any audience for one reason or another.
robsigns
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I agree - the books are great. It only took them a few days to get over from England. I'm still looking for the "lines" book. Does anyone know where that one can be had?
JamesinLA
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I must disagree. I believe that Krowd Keepers has stuff in it that is not in Cellini's dvd on street performing and while it may be in Gazzo's uncensored tape how are you gonna know what you're seeing unless you know what you're seeing or what to look for? That's the effect that happens when people hearing a lanuage that isn't their first language--for instance a Spanish speaker hearing English--they hear the letter "V" as a letter "B" because they don't have a "V" sound in their language. So they just don't hear the sound. Same thing if you're watching Gazzo's tape. Unless you know what to look for, you won't just get it.
Examples from Krowd Keepers: the section on routining: these 19 lines (if that's how long it is) made a huge difference in my effectiveness as a street performer. That section tells you how to routine your show in terms of handling and maintaining and building your crowd correctly right from the start. That is the mandate of the book. To address things in terms of crowd control. It would be out of place and beyond the scope of the book to discuss "good" or "bad" routines. (However, Gazzo's show and his routines are spelled out earlier in the book.)
Another aspect that has helped me improve my show (bringing a better show and more smiling faces to my audience and more $ to me) are Gazzo's performance pointers. I don't think that information is anywhere else to be found except from Gazzo himself. That stuff helped me so much I can't say. Eye contact, smiling, etc. To me, detailed notes on how to effectively perform is just as important if not more so than detailed notes on sleights, etc.

I would also say, that having those pointers also helped me better be "me" on the street, finding my own way of implimenting those strong performing guildlines. Watching Gazzo on tape is rather intoxicating and can imprint you with his style at first (I know it did me!).

So I have to disagree that the info in there is redundant. While some of is the basics, there is also a lot of new stuff. There is gold in those pages. Gazzo gold.

Jim
Oh, my friend we're older but no wiser, for in our hearts the dreams are still the same...
Werner G. Seitz
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JamesinLA:

I second your opinion..
Apart from *The Art of Krowd Keeping* is pure entertainment for each and everybody interested in the finer points of entertaining, some of the tips in there are pure gold...
BUT, it is hard to visualize the impact a performer like Gazzo does make on any audience..
Somehow I think, that kind of wit and humour ONLY can originate from an *englishmen* .. Smile Smile

Frank Starsini:

I owe you!
The *Uncensored* arrived today and I had the ball of my lifetime to have a quick few..it will take hours of repeat watching to get really through it.
That video is a MUST for anybody interested in entertainment..

To hell with the magic, it is secondary and just a red thread to the final goal..to entertain ppl and so get the CASH!!!
Gazzo is one of the greatest ENTERTAINERs I've ever seen working the street..

The only one I can imagine drawing even larger crowds and getting more money is *Steve&Jack*... Smile (non magic act normally)

Magicwise, my vote re pure and entertaining magic still is on Cellini, BUT re entertainment Gazzo can't be beaten..

But who am I to *vote*...just make your own judgement by seen all performers -on the street- that you are able to, many of them are worth watching!

The *Uncensored* is a must..it is pure joy and entertainment, no matter how much magic you've seen earlier in your life!

Get that video as long as it is available..

I think also the *School of Scoundrels* ..Whit Haydn and Chef Anton have to have my recognition for bringing to us that kind of stuff..we, on this site of the atlantic enjoy it and seeing an englishmen conquer the US is a joy to watch Smile..
Magicwise I only recall Bob Read having the same spirit of a busker when doing his crazy C&B, as well as all the other busker-stuff by use of his bowlerhat, his bottle production, his 100& bill glass through the table..whatever he does....

The buskers have earned every single dollar they ever made by their great work!

One more thing re the Gazzo *Uncensored*..I simply have to state this..
I NEVER had that much fun in seeing and hearing a REAL performer working, since Johnny Paul!!!
And that is about as good as they can come..
Johnny Paul was the greatest entertainer with magic I ever saw, he brought tears of fun to my eyes..
Gazzo does likewise..there is -in my book- no better compliment !

( There was only one other guy..and that was David Williamson, at a Swedish convention years back ...simply pure joy to watch...)

@&%$ ...that guy Gazzo doesn't even need *magic* to entertain!
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....

( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might
as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto... Smile )
Pete Biro
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Interesting you put Johnny Paul and Gazzo in the same context... (and David Williamson). I would add Bob Read, and there you have it. The best.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
Werner G. Seitz
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Quote:
On 2004-08-09 12:13, Pete Biro wrote:
I would add Bob Read, and there you have it. The best.
I DID... Smile in another thread Smile Smile
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....

( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might
as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto... Smile )
mslj
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The Read Between the Lines book will be out in about a month. Just putting the finishing touches to the edits.

Simon
Sir T
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James in LA,

I agree there is some good information in the book, but I think the co-author agrees with my thoughts on the book:

Quote:
Sir T,

Probably to the surprise of many considering I am a co-author of the Krowd Keepers book I do not disagree with this statement.

Gazzo's new cups and balls book written with Simon is not only an excellent reference for the trick proper it is one of the best nuggets on busking I have ever read.

For someone who has some experience working the street I would say pass right by Krowd Keepers and head straight at the cups book.


The cup and ball book is by far more in depth, then keeping a krowd, but that is me.

I would have to agree with statements already made, get Gazzo uncensored!!!! It is a must have!!! I agree % with:

I also agree with your comments about the uncensored tape. Unfortunately, most people who do not know what they are watching fast forward right by the thirty minute part that I and probably you find to be the meat and potatoes of the entire tape. The section where Gazzo is crowd building at the ren faire

Anyway, I agree we will just have to disagree about the book.
JamesinLA
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Sure, T, we will disagree about the book. But I'm not saying, as you said, that people who fast forward past a certain part of the uncensored tape will not get it because of that. No, what I said was that you can watch the whole thing. You can watch it more than once. You are still not going to know what you are seeing at many levels, you aren't going to know how the Gaz is doing on many levels, unless one of two conditions are true:

1) You read his book or study some other work that deals with the same subject of crowd control on the street on a par with Gazzo's insights. Only then will someone know what to look for, per my example of language. (See my above post for that approbiate analogy.) Or...

2) You are a performer with the experience and talent on a par with Gazzo himself.

I am not going to accentuate any disagreements I have with others on this board whose opinions I hold in the highest esteem, and most of whom have more experience than me on the street. However, from all my experience and understanding, I must believe what I believe.

While other people's opinions are certainly to be weighted, they can't be the final arbitors of my opinion.

Good luck and take care,

Jim

PS: I am a co-author of the book and I agree with me. (wink)
Oh, my friend we're older but no wiser, for in our hearts the dreams are still the same...
Werner G. Seitz
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Quote:
On 2004-08-10 04:43, JamesinLA wrote:
PS: I am a co-author of the book and I agree with me. (wink)
I'm NOT a co-author and I still agree.. Smile
Why?, because I love magic and any information coming from somebody that *made* it..somebody with experience who made his living doing the stuff he talks about..

I also read and enjoy what *theoretical* participaters have to say..they all have a place and often a valuable opinion, but still, ppl who earned their living from that stuff and are letting *us* taking part in their opinions and experiences are the ones that we have to study more close..they know what they are talking about..otherwise they wouldn't have survived in this game..

To work the street is the hardest job one can get and if one succeds there, I don't doubt -but I still judge and think about- what they have to say.. Smile
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....

( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might
as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto... Smile )
JamesinLA
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PSS: I have to say, though, I think it's great we have a real disagreement. It was really getting a little to agreeable around here. That's what makes a market as they say.

But I will add one more thought: Someone can watch the Gazzo tape till they go blind, you can read Krowd Keepers and the Cups and Balls book till the pages are worn, you can even watch Gazzo in the flesh and feel what it feels like to be carried away by him--and you are still--on some deep level, not going to see "it." Whatever the heck it is that gets him all that cash. You are going to ask your and we're going to ask each other, "How the %#@*? does he do it!"

Now tell me, everyone, haven't you ever said that to yourself about him and said it to others? "How the %#@*? does he do it?"
Oh, my friend we're older but no wiser, for in our hearts the dreams are still the same...
Werner G. Seitz
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Quote:
On 2004-08-10 06:00, JamesinLA wrote:
Now tell me, everyone, haven't you ever said that to yourself about him and said it to others? "How the %#@*? does he do it?"

No...I think I know.. Smile
It's engaging himself with his audience, letting them (and himself) have a lot of fun and always *be prepared*..with lines, no matter how and by whom he is interupted.

As most might know, an interuption migth very well add positive to the act, when one is able to respond the right way..and Gazzo is..
So -again- it is all about pure entertainmanet..as you know, Gazzo doesn't *need* to do any magic - he is an entertainer also without magic-, that's why he is so good!
He could entertain without using it, magic is just a red thread through his act and of course his finale tops all this..

Soo, I'm NOT in doubt why and how he succeds..others shouldn't either.. Smile
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....

( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might
as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto... Smile )
Danny Hustle
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Jim,

You hit the nail on the head. This is what I was trying to say but obviously missed the mark.

If you do not know what you are looking at you will never see it. Krowd Keepers is designed to help those who have not worked the streets avoid some of the obvious pitfalls and perhaps help them use other materials they already have more efficiently.

Every time I post about that part of the uncensored video somebody replies with "How did you know I fast forwarded past that?"

Krowd Keepers can help you understand the subtleties of this thing we do.

Best,

Dan-

Quote:
On 2004-08-10 04:43, JamesinLA wrote:
Sure, T, we will disagree about the book. But I'm not saying, as you said, that people who fast forward past a certain part of the uncensored tape will not get it because of that. No, what I said was that you can watch the whole thing. You can watch it more than once. You are still not going to know what you are seeing at many levels, you aren't going to know how the Gaz is doing on many levels, unless one of two conditions are true:

1) You read his book or study some other work that deals with the same subject of crowd control on the street on a par with Gazzo's insights. Only then will someone know what to look for, per my example of language. (See my above post for that approbiate analogy.) Or...

2) You are a performer with the experience and talent on a par with Gazzo himself.

I am not going to accentuate any disagreements I have with others on this board whose opinions I hold in the highest esteem, and most of whom have more experience than me on the street. However, from all my experience and understanding, I must believe what I believe.

While other people's opinions are certainly to be weighted, they can't be the final arbitors of my opinion.

Good luck and take care,

Jim

PS: I am a co-author of the book and I agree with me. (wink)
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"MT is one of the reasons we started this board! I’m so sick of posts being deleted without any reason given, and by unknown people at that." - Steve Brooks Sep 7, 2001 8:38pm
©1999-2014 Daniel Denney all rights reserved.
JamesinLA
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Okay, Dan, well said. Thanks to Mr. T and everyone for such a lively discussion.

Jim
Oh, my friend we're older but no wiser, for in our hearts the dreams are still the same...
Sir T
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Street cups and ball by Gazzo: A review of sorts.

For many of us, we own Gazzo on the cup and balls, Gazzo uncensored, and Gazzo on the cup and balls a booklet, so is there any need for yet another Gazzo book? Is there a Danger, that soon there will be Gazzo clones on every street, doing the Gazzo routine?

I recently bought the latest Gazzo books, as mentioned earlier in this thread. Each book offers something to the reader, depending on one's level of experience you may gain a lot or just a little, but each bit of information will save you much time and wasted effort.

Gazzo's street cups and balls, covers the following topics:

Forward by Bob Read: A lasting memory
Introduction
The Streets
Street stories:Teh luck of the streets
In the beginning
Street stories:No Drinking allowed
To copy or Not to copy
Street stories:Wanna closer look?
Enviroment
Street stories:Animal farm
Timing
Appearance
Length of show
Hecklers
street stories:When it goes wrong
Hats_A fair Exchange
Simplicity
Lines
Props
The moves
The routine
Conclusion"You'll go far kid"

The book runs 67 pages of pure entertainment and wisdom. It is my belief, this book takes off where Keeping a Krowd left off or left out information (although Keeping a Krowd is still a worthwhile read).

The information in this book is by far worth more then you will pay. The text is clear, the stories are real and the book provides you with Gazzo's whole routine line for line, so you can stop pausing the VCR and trying to write down everything he says!! LOL

My only complaint with this book, is I myself do not care for drawings, but prefer photographs. This of course would have added to the cost of the book, a cost I would have borne without pause.

This book is the real deal, get it while you can, if you want to learn a cup and ball routine that is proven to be effective, here it is.

When I started this review, I asked, "Is there any need for yet another Gazzo book?

To answer this question, I truly believe there is! This book goes beyond his lecture notes, add much to his Tapes, and will give one a greater understanding of what they are seeing and hopefully some food for thought.


Is there a danger, that soon there will be Gazzo clones on every street, doing the Gazzo routine?

There is always a danger of clones in the beginning, but I feel that as performers get comfortable with the routine and the need to stand out from others, each will add something to the routine and make it their own and maybe even improve upon Gazzo's routine (is that possible??).

Anyway, a good read and worth owning if you have any interested in learning the cup and balls and performing them on the streets.
Rupert Bair
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I've Just gotten Krowd Keeping. Absolutley fantastic!
Matt
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