This post is looking for unique cup routines that are unlike the standard or classic (yet proven) Vernon type routines.

I'm interested in comments on out of the box thinking when it comes to the
cups and balls.

For example routines such as:

Johnny Paul's "Cups & Sponge ball routine"
Larry Jennings "Cups and balls"
Tim Ellis's "Run around Sue"
Milt Kort's "Precognitive Cups and Balls"
Bob Farmer's "One Ball cups and balls routine"
Pete Biro's Idea of a No Cup routine with both small and large balls.

Or different phases and uses in cups routines such as:

Aldo Colombini's "Cups and Balls routine" (Juggling cups)
John Fedko's "ABC Cups"
Paul Gertner's "Ball bearing routine"
Alex Elmsley's final load of salt

I feel that these routines add new excitement to the standard version. I'm interested in hearing opinions about these and other routines that are different from the classic versions. I think that there is plenty of life in this old classic, although I'm searching for new idea's and proven routines that are different.


MM

Put Tommy Wonder's brilliant "Two Cup Routine" on your list. You might find it on his DVD "Visions of Wonder - Tommy Wonder - Volume 1", or "The Books of Wonder - Volume II", or "Tommy Wonder Entertains".

Larry Jennings has two outstanding Cups & Ball routines "Larry Jennings´ Single Cups & Balls Routine", refer to Mike Maxwell's "The Classics Magic of Larry Jennings" and a Chop Cup routine to be found under the name "Larry Jennings Chop Cup Routine" in Jeff Busby's booklet "Larry Jennings on Cards & Coin Handling".

Hardi

Well how about flaming balls of fire for the final load ,

and currently I'm working on a routine done with chicken nuggets , where you end up with a final load of fries , and after that you lift the cups to discover and blob of kethup , mayo , and brownsauce under each .

I know it wont be for every one , due to it being really messy , but since I work comedy I figure it will be a good closer

Add on your list John Ramsay's "Cups & Balls". You will find it on Andrew Galloway's "The Ramsay Classics, The Collected Works of John Ramsay" and on "The Magic of John Ramsay, Volume 1" (Video). I am sure it is on the newer Ramsay DVDs too.
The "One Cup and Ball Routine" of Ramsay's can be found on "The Ramsay Legend, The Magic of John Ramsay (Revised)" by Andrew Galloway.
The most negative version I find is with baby chicks, Ross Bertram or others.

Some of the weakest points in the Vernon routine are the illogical handling, which needs to transfer the small balls from the left hand to the right hand, being able to vanish the balls when transferring them back to the right hand. Second, the ruses of a fake vanish at the end of the routine to get access to the large balls.

Try to avoid these constructions, develop the routine for stand-up, and you will end up on a higher degree.

You left out my favorite:

Indian Cups (Jadoowalla style) .. the PRESENTATION is what makes any routine strong.

I speak double talk doing this as an impression of a street performer in India, talking a fake indian language with a fake accent.

Another was Bob Read's routine with three different cups.

Billy McComb has a BRILLIANT routine with coffee cups where the HANDLES from the mugs disappear only to be found under the cups.

Now that is really out of the box.

See David Regals's cups and balls routine for a unique load. Johnny Ace Palmer's final load were baby chicks which he put away in a kentucky fried chicken box. I prefer the chop cup or single cup and balls. It fits my performing style better.

One idea I toyed around with (I do perform a variation of Johny Paul's wonderful sponge ball routine(see Arcarde Creams for some marlo touches with sponge ball cups and balls routines) is a selfinflatable balloon. As a youngster, I tried vinegar and baking soda, I have worked on other remedies. The idea is that the balloon inflates and lifts the cup up as it gets larger. Anybody with any safe suggestions out there?

Unfortunately we do not know much from the time before Dai Vernon. Bob Read lifts us back with his collection of about 700 paintings to the time when all started in Europe.
J.N. Hofzinser's routine "Das Becherspiel" can be found in "Johann Nepomuk Hofzinser Zauberkünste" (1942) by Ottokar Fischer. I believe an English translation exists. Hofzinser's routine predates the Vernon routine about a century, and it seams to be in strong contrast with the conjuring of Bartholomeo Bosco, the brilliant Cups & Balls performer of that time.

It exists:
http://dogbert.abebooks.com/servlet/Book......24468778

A recreating version of Cups & Balls is Duvivie's "Cups, Balls, and a Cup" which can be found in Racherbaumer's "Magie Duvivie". The routine starts as a three cup routine and ends with a fourth cup on the working space without any trace how it came there.

Thanks Pete, I'm off looking for this version to read. Your right, its really out of the box and just the type of thing that I'm looking for.

This post alone will keep me busy for a while researching and analyzing. I agree with your post Hardi regarding the Vernon routine. Although I do his routine (as others), its not my preferred performance piece. Bob Read's posters are interesting to study, and I believe that you can find answers to pre- Vernon era secrets with the cups by studying them. Speaking of which, I developed my own way to produce a 7" leather ball as the final load from studying one of his posters. The ball actually appears under the cup. Note, the process is not like Paul Gertners when Paul produces the large ball bearing at the end of his routine.

Great information, I'll update the listing and repost it. I look forward to some fun research.

Thanks to all,

MM

One of the most astonishing endings to a cup and ball routine I saw was many many years ago when I watched Eric De Camps at a Magic Convention do a cup and ball routine and ended up producing a small glass bottle of pierrer from all three cups at the very end of his routine. I will never forget this. I don't know if he ever put it on the market or published his routine.

There are other routines out there. Have you looked at the Ramsay routine?

I have not Jonathan.

Hardi mentioned it above and I plan to look into it. Since reading Ammar's "Complete Cups and Balls" and comparing it to the Stevens cups tape I've been searching my library for other versions.

After a review of the material that I preferred, I posted here looking for other "out of the box" type routines.

MM

I just got back from seeing Jason Latimer's wonderful cups and balls routine. I won't spoil the experience for anyone who hasn't had the pleasure of seeing it yet; however, since we're talking about cool variations of this classic of magic, I think that his rendition should be included. Good magic!

Right now I'm still designing my routine, but I want to have a watch (that I call attention to earlier through a trick or just for the time) that I have on my wrist appears under the cup. I've also been thinking about ideas with a small cup being used, and as a final load the cup appears under another cup, in which another load is under the small cup. Again, I'm still working on my routine.

I never thought of a watch for the cups and balls load. I did think about the use of 'time'- combining 3 small hour glass final loads all with out any sand inside them. Later the sands of time would appear much like Elmsley's salt final load.

Hmmm, I'm going off topic but you could combine a watch steel effect with David Roth's "The Sleeve".(Expert Coin Magic) It would be great if when removing your hand from the "sleeve" you had numerous watches on your arm that you previously stole.

I heard that a similar effect was suggested to D.R. in the 90's (minus the multiple watch steals) but he didn't seem much interested in it. Either way I think that it would be a great second climax and a heck of a reputation builder. I started working on it a few years ago and there are a few problems with the effect- but it is possible.


MM

I have Ricki Dunn's (Probably the best pickpocet ever!!) unpublished book here and he talks about a routine doing a 'chop cup' and producing a stolen watch at the end. He had performed this routine many many years ago.

I have done this in my cups and balls routine. Shortly after studying the Tommy Wonder loading sequence for his two-cup routine, I added this to my routine one night at a fundraiser. I had stolen the watch in the previous routine, and then simply put it in the felt bag as I was introducing my cups. The bag went into the pocket (this by the way protected the watch from banging against my copper cups).

Halfway through my routine, I loaded the watch-loaded bag under a cup, and then produced it--then took out the watch. I went on to finsh the routine after things settled down again, along with my final loads.

I found the if you try to load a watch in a 1-2-3-4 sequence at the end, that the watch production can become anticlimatic, or even lost at the and of the routine, so I personally opt for mid-way.

Jason Latimer has changed his cups and balls routine since FISM... he has gotten "looser" with it and has some new "exciting" moves that defy detection. He said he's always evolving it.

He also is making a new set with different glasses and plans to market it in a year or so.

Get in line.