The Magic Caf
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Food for thought » » Believe and Disbelieve (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devil's Island
16543 Posts

Profile of tommy
One can believe true what one knows is false but can one disbelieve what one knows is true?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
R.S.
View Profile
Regular user
CT one day I'll have
188 Posts

Profile of R.S.
I suppose one can profess belief or disbelief in anything. However, knowledge is a subset (and a greater conviction of) belief. Therefore, one cannot earnestly believe things they know to be false or earnestly disbelieve things they know to be true.
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devil's Island
16543 Posts

Profile of tommy
Well, I don't think one can be seriously earnest and at the same time believe a fictional story true for one's amusement.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
R.S.
View Profile
Regular user
CT one day I'll have
188 Posts

Profile of R.S.
Quote:
On May 2, 2023, tommy wrote:
Well, I don't think one can be seriously earnest and at the same time believe a fictional story true for one's amusement.


Then doesn't this contradict your previous statement that..."One can believe true what one knows is false"

??
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
Wravyn
View Profile
Inner circle
3513 Posts

Profile of Wravyn
If it is on the internet, it must be true.
funsway
View Profile
Inner circle
old things in new ways - new things in old ways
9987 Posts

Profile of funsway
If tommy thinks something is true it must be about a different thread or theme.
If it is about the current topic it is false.

Just an option after many year here , but may or may not express my actual view of things.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst

eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devil's Island
16543 Posts

Profile of tommy
Suspension of disbelief is the avoidance—often described as willing—of critical thinking and logic in understanding something that is unreal or impossible in reality, such as something in a work of speculative fiction, in order to believe it for the sake of enjoying its narrative. -Wikipedia

I think the above is a belief but I do not think it is an earnest or serious belief: I think it is an entirely irrational belief but not insane. It is normal to believe let us say Superman is real when watching a Superman movie.

On the other hand, I think if one rationally decides that something is true I don’t think one can then deny it, or pretend it is false, without appearing insane.

I say I think when I don't know and that is why I ask.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
funsway
View Profile
Inner circle
old things in new ways - new things in old ways
9987 Posts

Profile of funsway
Ah tommy, you original post did not limit the view to theater.
Yes, we can play all sort of game with theater and pretend venues and fantasy games.

In real life, believed things and known things are different, but really confused by the masses.
Truth is not popularity contest. If you know the truth of something, you may pretend at a different view but that is not 'believing', just a lie.

If you only believe something there is no truth, just a level of certainty changeable to conviction or certitude by experience and choice.

Sadly, most folks prefer believed things and conviction over certitude or knowing.

You can pretend either and lie about it. Fooling yourself is the real problem.

Is one insane claim a known falsehood to be fact? No - it only means you are politician or marketer/preacher
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst

eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devil's Island
16543 Posts

Profile of tommy
“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”

George Orwell, 1984
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Pakar Ilusi
View Profile
Inner circle
5777 Posts

Profile of Pakar Ilusi
Quote:
On May 2, 2023, tommy wrote:
One can believe true what one knows is false but can one disbelieve what one knows is true?


Happens all the time in human society.

It has become a standard prerequisite delusion amongst masses.
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devil's Island
16543 Posts

Profile of tommy
For example.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Pakar Ilusi
View Profile
Inner circle
5777 Posts

Profile of Pakar Ilusi
Quote:
On Jun 20, 2023, tommy wrote:
For example.


Scientists who truly believe in their organized faith systems.

Systems that go against their scientific knowkedge that are evidence-based.
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devil's Island
16543 Posts

Profile of tommy
Scientists, I think, ought to stick to attempting to explain the physical real world and stop fantasying that science can explain, or prove or disprove the existence of the non-physical phenomenal world, which we all know exists.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Pakar Ilusi
View Profile
Inner circle
5777 Posts

Profile of Pakar Ilusi
Quote:
On Jun 21, 2023, tommy wrote:
Scientists, I think, ought to stick to attempting to explain the physical real world and stop fantasying that science can explain, or prove or disprove the existence of the non-physical phenomenal world, which we all know exists.


There you go, you just answered your own question that started this thread. Smile
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Food for thought » » Believe and Disbelieve (0 Likes)
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2024 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.02 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL