I have acquired what I *think* is a set of Bob Kohler’s Ultimate 3 Fly coins.

Firstly, I’m seeking confirmation (or disconfirmation) that what I possess is, indeed, Kohler’s U3F.

My set consists of 3 uncirculated Morgans (1 of which is both magnetic and of reduced diameter), plus 1 unexpanded sliding “slippery sam” semi-shell (which is shimmed).

Is that, in fact, what a Kohler U3F set consists of?

Secondly, from my Café research here, I have also gleaned that Kohler’s U3F was originally crafted by Todd Lassen, but subsequently a non-Lassen-made version replaced it. Is there any way of distinguishing one version from the other? If I do have a U3F set, how can I tell whether it’s a Lassen set, or a post-Lassen set?

For instance, did the Lassen set lock in a snap-fit manner, rather than using a magnet? (Seems I may have got that possibly wrong impression from reading lots of old posts here, but unsure about it.)

Finally, my set did not come with any instructions. My understanding (again, from old Café posts) is that U3F came with a VHS videocassette, which provided instructions and detailed its routine. Were there never any accompanying written instructions available? Has the original video from the old VHS ever been made available as a DVD, or a download?

I no longer even own a VHS player, and I have the impression that the Kohler VHS tape is now probably pretty pricey and hard to find, anyway.

Bob Kohler’s current website seems to make no mention of U3F that I can find. So I guess U3F is no longer available new (though I wonder why, since it seemed pretty popular when released, with rave reviews here), and there’s no option for ordering any sort of instruction for it (video or otherwise), which is also unfortunate.

Are there any other possible available options for learning the original Kohler U3F routine?

I believe Schoolcraft took over the manufacturing. Not sure but I don't think the Lassen set was magnetic.

A few thoughts:
1) I suspect this crosses a line of exposure. Maybe it should be discussed in the secret sessions area instead of here?
3) Most of the manufacturers hallmark their coins. You could look under the shim - and the way it's built might be an indication, but I also wouldn't advise removing it, since then you'd have to put it back, and/or might damage it. I was also under the impression that one of the iterations was mechanically locking.
2) Unless you bought it new, the fact that it didn't come with a VHS doesn't really indicate it isn't authentic - maybe the previous seller lost it.

The original U3F was as you describe, except that it was not magnetic or shimmed, it locked. It did come with a VHS cassette. Lassen and Kohler parted ways. After that Schoolcraft produced some. You could also get them directly from Lassen. I obtained a couple of soft sets from Lassen.

As far as learning the routine, I always suggest looking up Eric Mead’s performance of it on YouTube . If you have a set, it’s pretty easy to follow along with the set in hand.

I’ve seen some poorly made sets. Generally , I can usually tell the Lassen sets by the quality.

Todd did, and Roy etches his signature. I can't think of many others who do or did. Maybe Thierry/MKS? I don't think Schoolcraft ever did. He includes paperwork with exact dimensions but no marks as far as I know.

As for U3F, search old posts as there was a well known seller that seemed to have an endless supply of U3F sets, all claiming to be original. Niceastuffa? Prei Auctions?

I was purchasing from Lassen in the days when he would answer the phone himself. While much of his work was hallmarked, occasionally it was not.

That too.... Though did he ever have someone else answering the phone?
I just made sure I knew what I wanted to say/ask so I didn't waste his time.....
or tick him off lol....

If I remember correctly, one thing to note as a differentiator is that the gimmicked coin that came with Kohler’s set had its “doorway” at the profile of Liberty’s face on the coin. Basically, the nose on Liberty’s profile pointed the way. I believe Bob mentions this in his vhs video instructions. A version I bought on eBay years ago had its gateway at the top of Liberty’s head leading me to believe it was not an original (it also came with a dvd pressing of the instructions that seemed like a bootleg). As for who makes them, I believe the earliest were Todd Lassen, and then it moved over to CNC tech, but I could be wrong. I don’t think they were ever made with a magnetic coin and shim (though Mark Mason has a nice 3fly which makes use of 2 gimmicks, one of them containing the magnetic properties you described. And you can email him to request the Morgan Dollar version).

I got a set directly from Bob Kohler very early on. The opening is at the back of Liberty’s head. From what I recall the instructions said to position the insert coin into the opening with the eagle’s head down. Since the performer would always be looking at the gimmick from the back, that’s how you would tell that everything was positioned properly. I don’t recall any mention of where in relation to Liberty’s head the opening was. It probably didn’t matter because the position of the eagle was the key.

I know that Kohler and Lassen had a falling out, after which Schoolcraft began to make them for him.
Most of the magnetic sets I’ ve seen ( I have a couple myself) don’t seem to have the quality that I would expect from Lassen.
I believe that Kohler and Lassen thought that the locking shell was the best way to go. I used to see Kohler back in those days, and even offered a suggestion or two about how the locking shell might be constructed. Though he did go his own way on that.

You are probably right. Been a while since I looked at the video instructions. I just remember there was something he said in the instructions about the gimmick that made me concerned the other set I bought on Ebay was not an authentic set (even though it was well made). Will plug in my older computer drives where I've saved these and take a look.

Owning an original U3F with the VHS bought at the time of its release, the slippery s**ll was locking, bare ( no shim), unexpanded, and had no hallmark. The other two coins would not fit the gaff as only one coin was reduced to fit. Todd did not start adding hallmarks till much later. Once he broke off with Kohler, he was free to sell his own U3F gaffs. He made a 1923 Peace dollar version for me around that time. Subsequently he improved the design with all 3 coins reduced to fit the gaff and adding teflon it. Of course, in time he started making the set with other coins - Barber, Walking Liberty, Seating Liberty to name a few.

IMO, Teflon wasn’t really needed in the shell. All it did was add thickness, so I removed it. Also, I’ve worked with sets in which all of the coins have been reduced to fit and I don’t consider it an improvement. The fanned coins look better when only one coin is cut to fit the shell. The cut down coin is in and out of the shell so quickly during the routine that it’s never noticed. The size difference between the shelled coin and the other cut down coins is noticeable.

And, a final observation, IMO, while I have both a shiny uncirculated coin set and a soft toned set, I think the uncirculated shiny set looks better during performance.

Hi There,
Most of my products have MKS engraved in it :

S.K.C (split) : near the magnet
Flipper, Slidings, Shells , sun and moon : inside the shell.
Others : an invoice is provided with the order.

If any suspicious, contact me with the name of the gaff and the owner.

It's definitely not an original U3F set that Bob put out (manufactured by Todd Lassen). Sounds like it might be a later set or prototype based on talk and ideas that Bob and others kicked around.

Bob has talked for some years now about re-releasing the trick with (a) upgraded technology, and (b) his complete routine. He usually is responsive; try emailing him and inquiring.

One thing for sure: it's an extraordinary effect. I used to do it for laymen, and the gimmick is a game changer.

Good luck!