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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Routines and effects for practicing hypnosis? (4 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

amazingadan
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I debated whether this should go in the mentalism vs hypnosis forum. Ultimately this felt like the better place, as the question is not about hypnosis so much as about mentalism and routining.

I've studied up on hypnosis for quite some time now, and reaped some basic results. But I find it hard to jump out and practice hypnosis with friends, acquaintances, and bystanders in social settings, which is where I do all the rest of my mentalism. I figured a good way to practice would be to build in a "hypnosis component" to some of my more standard routines, which could succeed or fail completely without impeding the effect (similar to the old suggestion of practicing a classic force in situations that don't require a force).

I could always just do the hypnosis, then if it fails, pull an ID out of my pocket. But to be honest that doesn't quite satisfy my need for logic -- what does one's hand failing to stick to the table have to do with knowing they'd pick the 3 of clubs?

Another idea would be to use pseudo-hypnosis effects. Jay Sankey's excellent amnesia effect comes to mind.

I wonder if anyone else has practiced their hypnosis chops in this way, or if any folks have insightful suggestions on ways to pepper logical and interesting hypnotic moments throughout standard mentalism routines.
mindmagic
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I've always performed mentalism as a demonstration of the "powers of the unconscious mind". For me, that includes the ideomotor effect, leading on to "waking hypnosis" or "suggestibility effects". I'm a qualified hypnotherapist but that's as far as I would go in a mentalism act, although I have also included some pseudo-hypnosis.

If you really must combine mentalism with real hypnosis, take a look at The Manchurian Approach by Anthony Jacquin (author of Reality is Plastic).
John C
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Quote:
On Dec 6, 2023, amazingadan wrote:
I debated whether this should go in the mentalism vs hypnosis forum. Ultimately this felt like the better place, as the question is not about hypnosis so much as about mentalism and routining.

I've studied up on hypnosis for quite some time now, and reaped some basic results. But I find it hard to jump out and practice hypnosis with friends, acquaintances, and bystanders in social settings, which is where I do all the rest of my mentalism. I figured a good way to practice would be to build in a "hypnosis component" to some of my more standard routines, which could succeed or fail completely without impeding the effect (similar to the old suggestion of practicing a classic force in situations that don't require a force).

I could always just do the hypnosis, then if it fails, pull an ID out of my pocket. But to be honest that doesn't quite satisfy my need for logic -- what does one's hand failing to stick to the table have to do with knowing they'd pick the 3 of clubs?

Another idea would be to use pseudo-hypnosis effects. Jay Sankey's excellent amnesia effect comes to mind.

I wonder if anyone else has practiced their hypnosis chops in this way, or if any folks have insightful suggestions on ways to pepper logical and interesting hypnotic moments throughout standard mentalism routines.



Promystic has a cool card routine for hypnosis. Cant fail really and good for a getting started hypno. Can be used on stage with many specs.
bevbevvybev
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I started dabbling in hypnotism in my early to mid teens. This lead to a lot of reading up on it (mainly to learn properly wtf just happened) and a lot of practicing on friends and relatives. It got me hauled in front of the school principal at one point when I was around 16. Mentalism came a lot later (after years of doing 'normal' magic) but the idea of using hypnosis in any other setting other than during demonstrations of suggestibility in fairly ideal circumstances has never seemed to me to be that interesting. Apart from an actual stage hypnosis routine (which I have considered creating, but never gone through with) I've never really seen the point in combining real and actual hypnosis with mentalism.

For instance, I can't imagine doing it during a strolling gig. And if it were a parlour show, I'd dedicate the entire thing to it. Although the pool of people may not be great enough for guaranteed results.

With that in mind, I'd be interested to see what anyone else has to say about it.
Stunninger
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When I was in high school, a friend of mine told me about the hypnotist who was soon coming to our school to perform a show. My friend had seen this hypnotist the year before and said it was the best entertainment he'd ever seen. I'd always been intrigued with hypnosis, but had never seen it demonstrated live.

On the day of the show, as my friend and I sat in the school theatre waiting for the performance to begin, my friend excitedly told me stories of the previous show he'd seen. I couldn't wait.

The hypnotist was introduced, came on stage and gave a brief talk about hypnosis. He then invited audience members to join him on stage. About 20 or so fellow students volunteered and took a seat on one of the chairs arranged in a semi circle. There was a table in the middle with a burning candle.

The hypnotist did a series of tests, dismissed a few subjects, then went into his induction.

Now the real fun was about to begin, or so I thought.

The hypnotist began the first routine, having one of the subjects stand up, then he gave him suggestions to do something, I forget what now. The subject did not comply, instead opened his eyes and just stood there. The hypnotist repeated his suggestions, but the subject again just stood there and did not comply. So the hypnotist dismissed him, and started to work with a second subject.

This next subject also did not comply with the suggestions given by the subject, rather she opened her eyes and shook her head back and forth pantomiming the word "no". She too was politely dismissed, and the hypnotist began working with a third subject, who also failed to comply with his suggestions.

This went on with several more subjects, each one not complying with the suggestions given by the hypnotist.

Finally, the hypnotist turned to the audience and said very apologetically, "I'm sorry, this has never happened before. I don't know what to say, but it's not working and I have to cancel the show."

And that was my very first experience seeing hypnosis demonstrated live.

I was disappointed, but also curious what happened.

Years later, I would hear a well-known stage hypnotist say during his introduction that about every one in a hundred shows, nobody responds and the show has to be cancelled. So this happens even with very experienced performers.

Odds of having more responsive subjects are better with larger groups, but when working with one person or a small group of subjects, there is never a guarantee how they will respond.

All of that said, I've generally had good results with simple suggestibility tests and convincers. Many people respond well to the magnet and metal test, and the book and balloon test. These are simple and easy to do. If a person responds well to both of those tests, they may also respond well to the hand clasp test. If you have a subject who responds well to all three, that makes for an interesting initial demonstration on the power of suggestion.

.
bevbevvybev
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What still freaks me out to this day, is just how extraordinarily suggestible some people are. Once in a while you come across someone who aces all the tests, and beyond into autosuggestion etc.
Slim King
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Quote:
On Dec 15, 2023, Stunninger wrote:
When I was in high school, a friend of mine told me about the hypnotist who was soon coming to our school to perform a show. My friend had seen this hypnotist the year before and said it was the best entertainment he'd ever seen. I'd always been intrigued with hypnosis, but had never seen it demonstrated live.

On the day of the show, as my friend and I sat in the school theatre waiting for the performance to begin, my friend excitedly told me stories of the previous show he'd seen. I couldn't wait.

The hypnotist was introduced, came on stage and gave a brief talk about hypnosis. He then invited audience members to join him on stage. About 20 or so fellow students volunteered and took a seat on one of the chairs arranged in a semi circle. There was a table in the middle with a burning candle.

The hypnotist did a series of tests, dismissed a few subjects, then went into his induction.

Now the real fun was about to begin, or so I thought.

The hypnotist began the first routine, having one of the subjects stand up, then he gave him suggestions to do something, I forget what now. The subject did not comply, instead opened his eyes and just stood there. The hypnotist repeated his suggestions, but the subject again just stood there and did not comply. So the hypnotist dismissed him, and started to work with a second subject.

This next subject also did not comply with the suggestions given by the subject, rather she opened her eyes and shook her head back and forth pantomiming the word "no". She too was politely dismissed, and the hypnotist began working with a third subject, who also failed to comply with his suggestions.

This went on with several more subjects, each one not complying with the suggestions given by the hypnotist.

Finally, the hypnotist turned to the audience and said very apologetically, "I'm sorry, this has never happened before. I don't know what to say, but it's not working and I have to cancel the show."

And that was my very first experience seeing hypnosis demonstrated live.

I was disappointed, but also curious what happened.

Years later, I would hear a well-known stage hypnotist say during his introduction that about every one in a hundred shows, nobody responds and the show has to be cancelled. So this happens even with very experienced performers.

Odds of having more responsive subjects are better with larger groups, but when working with one person or a small group of subjects, there is never a guarantee how they will respond.

All of that said, I've generally had good results with simple suggestibility tests and convincers. Many people respond well to the magnet and metal test, and the book and balloon test. These are simple and easy to do. If a person responds well to both of those tests, they may also respond well to the hand clasp test. If you have a subject who responds well to all three, that makes for an interesting initial demonstration on the power of suggestion.

.

Now I'm getting cold feet....or is that a hidden suggestion....???? Smile Smile Smile
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
rsheytanov
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I believe that "True Mysteries" by Fraser Parker is an excellent and overlooked placed to start/ end in the field of Hypnosis Smile
Axel
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Hi amazingadan,

I practiced hypnosis in the beginning a lot with strangers, using mentalism routines as a frame and an out.
Things that worked very well for me were invisible touches or a coin/key bend.
Both lend themselves very well to some of the early phenomenons you would archive with suggestions.
An arm levitation connects with invisible touches.
A key bend with an arm catalepsy for example.

But in the end I wouldn't worry too much about the logic part of things.
I imagine from your post that you perform mostly in a social context?
So, as long as you have something that makes you feel more confident in practicing hypnosis and at the same time provides some mystery entertainment for your audience you should be fine.

Imagine your and your participant's mind being connected through the trance experience (what in a way is what happens for real):
any telepathic experiment would mqke sense (peek, force, NW etc.)

Just get out there and have fun. You'll be successful.

Axel
amazingadan
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Thanks all for sharing your own excellent insights. I appreciate these thoughts about sharing suggestion performances separately-yet-adjacently to standard mentalism.
amazingadan
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On Feb 16, 2024, Axel wrote:
Hi amazingadan,

I practiced hypnosis in the beginning a lot with strangers, using mentalism routines as a frame and an out.
Things that worked very well for me were invisible touches or a coin/key bend.
Both lend themselves very well to some of the early phenomenons you would archive with suggestions.
An arm levitation connects with invisible touches.
A key bend with an arm catalepsy for example.

But in the end I wouldn't worry too much about the logic part of things.
I imagine from your post that you perform mostly in a social context?
So, as long as you have something that makes you feel more confident in practicing hypnosis and at the same time provides some mystery entertainment for your audience you should be fine.

Imagine your and your participant's mind being connected through the trance experience (what in a way is what happens for real):
any telepathic experiment would mqke sense (peek, force, NW etc.)

Just get out there and have fun. You'll be successful.

Axel


Thanks in particular Axel. This makes a lot of sense, and I also appreciate those specific suggestions — I wouldn’t have thought of invisible touches or a metal bend here! You’re right that I perform mostly socially, and I like the framework of hypnosis as a step toward being “connected through the trance experience.” That also gives me an inroad to feeling genuine and authentically connected to the truth of what I’m saying. Cheers!
Mindpro
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On Feb 18, 2024, amazingadan wrote:
I like the framework of hypnosis as a step toward being “connected through the trance experience.” That also gives me an inroad to feeling genuine and authentically connected to the truth of what I’m saying. Cheers!


Let's not kid yourself and remember none of this has anything to do with hypnosis at all. I do not see any framework of any hypnosis here at all.
JamJar
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On Feb 1, 2024, rsheytanov wrote:
I believe that "True Mysteries" by Fraser Parker is an excellent and overlooked placed to start/ end in the field of Hypnosis Smile

True Mysteries is great. Some of Frasers finest work
Mid 40s guy probably having a mid life crisis, so I started a blog!
Www.mentalistblogger.com
Matt Pulsar
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Study Jacquin? Good stuff in there. Aaron Alexander’s bridge is a great one. Muscle reading is an avenue to look at. Recently I worked through Peter Turner’s how to control minds set (what they send you physically is basically useless but…) in the video instruction is the best wording and framing for having their hand stuck to a table I have found. There are also other great things in this but you have to delve into it and take notes to get there. Otherwise ideomotor is the way to go.
Belief Manifests Reality.
Nebula CT: https://www.penguinmagic.com/p/8517
amazingadan
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Definitely going to check out True Mysteries as I'm a big fan of Fraser Parker, thanks folks.

Anthony Jacquin and Reality Is Plastic were my first introduction to hypnosis back in high school when the book came out. I've enjoyed some mild success there, but I feel quite "naked" without some deception up my sleeve! These days I'm working on finding the balance between deception and authenticity. I'd love to do more muscle reading, but I have not managed to develop any reliable skill there. I don't even like to practice it anymore because I fail more often than not.

I'll definitely check out Bridge by Aaron Alexander, as his Psychic Surgery is another on-ramp I plan to use, as a performance piece which could lead to more advanced hypnotic phenomena. Thanks for the suggestions!
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