|
|
|
|||
bitnox New user 17 Posts 
|
Hello, I'm not a good liar, I know that in mentalism there are a number of real things that don't always work, so sometimes there is also a backup plan with lies, does it sound like a show without lies will go well? Planting thoughts, by failing to change a note or something like that but declaring that there was a failure and there would be something simple like changing a door, suggestion, by failing to use a pseudo but declaring that it failed and it's only a pseudo, reading muscles, by failing to use some trick and declare it, memory exercises, mental calculations, etc. . I know that the audience somehow knows when the mentalist is lying, so I think that a show without lies can be something suspicious, when the seventies passed they stopped believing Uri Geller, I'm guessing that a day will come and they won't believe Nimrod Harel, that's why I'm thinking about the possibility of a show without lies. I would love to know what you think
|
ddyment Inner circle Gibsons, BC, Canada 2525 Posts
|
The late Jerry Andrus, a highly ethical person, was philosophically opposed to lying.
He never told an untruth during his often astonishing magical (he was a magician, not a mentalist) performances.
The Deceptionary :: Elegant, Literate, Contemporary Mentalism ... and More :: (order "Calculated Thoughts" from Vanishing Inc.)
|
funsway Eternal Order old things in new ways - new things in old ways 10019 Posts
|
A maxim of sales training is, "you never have to lie since you can create your own truths."
Magicians are the moist truthful of performers. They say they will entertain with trickery, guile and artifice. Then they do exactly what they promise. Mentalists? Perhaps so much. Some, seem to want the observers to believe they have some paranormal ability. So, the start with a lie and never recover. Others simply demonstrate unusual phenomena and allow each observer to draw their own conclusions - no lie necessary. A few focus on abilities that everyone has that can be enhanced in some manner. Again, embellished truth perhaps, but not a lie. However, I disagree with the notion that a performer needs a "back up plan" that requires a lie. Why? Not sure about "real thing" not working either. Complete success of any paranormal demonstration "every time, on demand" would be suspect for any observer. The problem may not be with performers, but that most everyone lies in everyday life, and therefor assumes others do also. Each member of your audience is probably better at deception and falsehood than you. Imagine when people go to a mystery performance to get some truth for a change.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
Philemon Vanderbeck Inner circle Seattle, WA 4743 Posts
|
Actors (and, to some extent, other entertainers) always lie. Once they are on stage (however defined in the particular context), they are permitted to say anything, and, with the audience's willingness to suspend disbelief, can create an air of authenticity. A magician or mentalist is an actor/entertainer bound by the same rules. When the performer exits the stage and continues the lies, they will get into trouble for unethical behavior.
Professor Philemon Vanderbeck
That Creepy Magician "I use my sixth sense to create the illusion of possessing the other five." |
|
Chaz93 Inner circle Texas 1766 Posts
|
I'm scripting a portion of my upcoming show at a metaphysical festival to be able to overtly tell them the method and what's going on, but for them not to notice. It's mostly just for my own amusement.
"Some people ask how I learned to do this. It's hard to explain, but basically what I'm doing is I'm trying to feel the energy from the item, it's magnetic field or aura or whatever you'd like to call it. Sometimes I feel it one way, some times another, but I can always tell when I feel the vibration of the energy that I've located the correct stone". hehe |
|
funsway Eternal Order old things in new ways - new things in old ways 10019 Posts
|
As a side-bar, my Dad was very adept at finding underground metal objects with two, bent coat hangers.
He was a land surveyor and located buried pins, pipes and even a door to an old mine cover with iron hinges. No performance, just work. He was once asked, "Ever try and find a true scientific cause for this ability?" He replied, "If I knew how I do it, I probably could not do it any more."
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
Mike Ince Inner circle 2048 Posts
|
Sometimes I DO observe body language cues, sometimes I DO use secrets gathered from mediums, self-proclaimed psychics, etc. SOMETIMES I just LIE. Whatever makes the show look better. The audience knows I might lie during a performance. They know what to expect, and can't say I was dishonest. Terry Holley used to do psychic shows in churches. He opened saying, "I'm not psychic, but for the next hour I'm going to convince you that I am." He felt good about that.
'To thine own self be true'. Make sure you feel good about how you're presenting yourself. I'm okay telling the audience I'm going to lie (I don't always, but with church crowds I do). Good acting and believable processes will convince people they're experiencing something real even after your up front and easily-forgotten reminder. I heard Ted Karmilovich say, "after my shows, some guys walk up and say, 'I don't know if I believe what you did was real, but I had a fantastic time.' I'm as happy as can be when they say that." When Ted was young, he wanted to be believed like Uri Geller was believed. It seems his focus changed as he went along his journey. My friend Van saw David Hoy perform once. He walked out and said, "Ladies and gentlemen, I am a psychic... and a fake!" He gained laughs and instant rapport, followed by an amazing show. Be amazing.
The secret of deception is in making the truth seem ridiculous.
|
|
amazingadan New user 41 Posts
|
This question kind of goes to the core of mentalism, as Bob Cassidy wrote, the first generation of mentalists were all liars and cheats trying to get the upper hand on one another.
If you really want to avoid lying, you'll have to think carefully about scripting and presentation. And if you want to rely on genuine psychological methods, you'll need to think hard in order to make it reliable. A psychological f**ce on a full audience could be considered "real," but the more criteria that you apply (for instance, honesty), the more boxed-in you get. Think about being an "honest liar." If you say "I'm going to show you something that's very difficult to explain, and over the years, has absolutely convinced thousands and thousands of people in the existence of genuine psychic phenomena" then you are not lying at all. Here's a brilliant little performance from Ian Rowland which I watched the other day, centered on the theme of "illusions." It's a lot of on-stage entertainment which is quite honest, and it suits the venue well. Maybe some food for thought: https://vimeo.com/106291491 |
|
amazingadan New user 41 Posts
|
Quote:
On Mar 6, 2024, funsway wrote: Ken, this is an amazing little anecdote. Sounds like your dad had the real dowsing touch of a working man, and he had a great answer to that question. Thanks for sharing! |
|
AlxRosekoski New user 40 Posts
|
Quote:
On Mar 4, 2024, bitnox wrote: It depends on your act. If you are trying to sell that you have legitimate mental powers, than you would have to lie. Aside from that, though, you shouldn’t lie, just be yourself. |
|
John C Eternal Order I THINK therefore I wrote 13065 Posts
|
Quote:
On Apr 4, 2024, AlxRosekoski wrote: I do have legitimate mental powers. Did I lie? |
Slim King Eternal Order Orlando 18155 Posts
|
Who wants to see a fake Psychic?
 
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
|
|
funsway Eternal Order old things in new ways - new things in old ways 10019 Posts
|
Quote:
On Apr 11, 2024, Slim King wrote: same folks who like fake politicians, fake preachers, fake marketers and fake educators - most people today.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
|
Slim King Eternal Order Orlando 18155 Posts
|
Quote:
On Apr 13, 2024, funsway wrote: I agree with you but maybe not in the way you think.... 
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
|
bobser Inner circle 4183 Posts
|
Nobody can TELL if another human is lying
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
|
|
saturnkk Veteran user Commerce Township, MI / Naples, FL 387 Posts
|
Quote:
On Jun 29, 2024, bobser wrote: Well, I disagree. But perhaps you cannot. |
|
funsway Eternal Order old things in new ways - new things in old ways 10019 Posts
|
Quote:
On Jun 29, 2024, bobser wrote: Much easier today - social media conditioning has everyone lying in some way. The issue should be how to tell if someone is offering the truth - or even being authentic. also - in ancient divination systems, the seer probed until all falsehood was stripped away and they could deal with an actual problem/situation. The objects and allegorical 'system' used was just a tool - the actual skill being lie detection.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
|
jekyllandhyde Veteran user 301 Posts
|
I'm "a highly ethical person" and have no problem lying during a performance.
|
|
Mr. Woolery Inner circle Fairbanks, AK 2154 Posts
|
Look at 13 Steps. There is a section on Super Mentality. Mnemonics, speed math. You can develop skills that are legit and awesome, but they take time and effort. I argue that these are mentalism, as they are part of the potential of the human mind. Arthur Benjamin makes a performance out of math and I find it wonderful. Muscle reading/Helstromism/CMR is amazing and can be done with no deception.
There’s a line I heard once about glass eating that I think applies. “There is no trick about what I do, but there is a technique.” You don’t need to tell anyone how you do something. You just need to do it. And explaining that no trickery is used might make you feel better, but I would personally not say it explicitly. If you’re good enough, people will assume trickery, regardless. Because some of the real skills look like they can’t be real. Patrick |
|
Azzaro Regular user 107 Posts
|
In order to present a marvelous performance you have to believe what you perform. Especially in terms of abilities end effect.
This way, mimic, gestures and stance subconsciously support your presentational approach, which makes it more believable and might prevent your audience from looking behind the curtains. In this case you are not lying as you created a new reality for yourself in which you are living the truth. And only your reality exists in your mind. I will not be liable for any types of schizophrenia following that path. :-D
Sincerely,
the mind of a hypocritical paradox, portraying the art of serious mischief. |
| The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » A real mentalism idea (11 Likes) | |
Posted: Mar 4, 2024 03:00 pm 
| [ Top of Page ] |
|
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2024 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved. This page was created in 0.04 seconds requiring 5 database queries. |
|
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic. > Privacy Statement < 
|