Lloyd’s of London.

For many years I was with Al Fellerman, then his daughter Stephanie of Clowns of the USA (now I believe is Specialty Insurance Agency) who at the time had one of the only (and still best) stage hypnosis insurance (which was different than my Hypnotherapist insurance).

The stuff through the associations, knowing most members are amateurs and hobbyists, often much different than those for professional performers.

Still the best.

The biggest concern is business interruption insurance.

Another question, which I hope does not come across as ignorant; should weekend DJ's or weekend bands look at insurance? I am not speaking of the once in a while type gigs, but recuring every weekend at weddings or bars. Do or should the venues such as a bars, or clubs, or rental halls request a COI?

I tell you this. If you have equipment that has a LOT of electricity and cables and such you need insurance. One drunk guest at a wedding tripping on your cord and the house saying it was you not them and bang you are going to have problems.

It is just what should be done. Is it done? Not hardly. I don’t know if bars require it or not. Many street performing pitches actually are asking for these things now.

It is the world we live in.

And in no way did that sound ignorant.

Fedora,

I too think it sounds like a good policy for the part-timers and those working kidshows such as birthday parties, etc. A general liability insurance policy is all that is expected. A million dollars goes a long way unless you just completely destroy the place. Even with the daycare centers, restaurants, etc, they already have property, content, and liability insurance of their own, so they’re not as worried as some may think. The words liability insurance is what they’re wanting to here.

It’s not that you don’t need insurance it’s more about how much you can afford. You would think that the large corporations would carry every type of insurance there is. But the real truth is quite different, most are self-insured, they don’t buy outside insurance, they see it as being cheaper that way. Insurance is a gamble and like with any gambling you can bet too much. You have to find the balance that fits your budget.

Tom

Liability is exactly right. If their insurance company deems YOU liable, guess what they don’t do with the claim? I’ll help you. The don’t pay it out! You can’t depend on home owners to have insurance for you that is ridiculous. They want you to have coverage.

In 2024 restaurants are VERY concerned with this. Because if they have to make a claim on their own insurance, the rates for all their policies go up! My lord is that a bad way of thinking.

Hey Wravyn, liability insurance is also asked for by these venues for DJs, actually many
of these insurance companies' market more toward DJs than they do magicians and jugglers.

PEEP which I mentioned previously lists on their website "DJ insurance and other performers".

I'm not a DJ, but you may want professional insurance as well, it might be possible for
someone to sue you for playing the wrong music or something weird like that.

Interesting questions about DJs. Yes, it has almost become mandatory for most mobile DJs to carry liability insurance at least, with many also having equipment insurance due to the state of today's DJ market. Many today besides music programming and sound systems, have mics and wireless mics for certain guests to use (clergy, Best Main, Mad/Matron of Honor, father of the bride, etc.) as well as portions of the show that take a DJ out from behind the table or booth and into the audience (dances, announcements ceremonies, etc. Yes, cables, and power are of great concern, but also many of today's mobile DJs also offer lighting, decorative and ambient lighting, up lighting, spots, foggers, confetti cannons, projection equipment, screens, and so much more. All if this increases concerns of the venues and even the hiring clients.

Our DJs have had this since before it was a common thing having it custom written for us before it was first offered by the different DJ associations, conference groups, etc.

While I've never heard about insurance for a DJs music programming, I'm sure it could be available as well although it is a subjective area unless specifically predetermined.

As far as club DJs it seems less common depending on some variables - if you are using the club's/house system and equipment or bringing your own, if you are a contractor or employee, if it is a pro traveling/touring DJ (Pauly D, Steve Aoki, David Guetta, Steven Harris, etc.) or a celebrity DJ (Paris Hilton, Lindsay Lohan, Carmen Electra, Jon Gosslin, etc.) I have always felt they are a big target and since alcohol is always involved it is a no-brainer to me.

We live in a litigious and sue-happy society today which makes it a smart risk for any mobile type of performer or entertainer.

As you know, I'm a kids and family performer. I've had performer's insurance for years.

I find that when I do birthday parties in various recreation centres, the venue asks that I add them to my insurance policy as additional insureds (they ask the parent, who then puts me in contact with the recreation centre contact).

Also, when I do shows at shopping centres, they ask that I add them to my policy as additional insureds. Recently, the shopping centres were asking if I had more than 2 M. policy (they reluctantly accepted that amount), so I was finally able to get a 5 M. policy.

I get several "additional insureds" requests each year.

- Donald

P.S. The main insurance for Canadian performers is available from HUB International. IBM (International Brotherhood of Magicians) recommends them, as does CAM (Canadian Association of Magicians). If you're a member of CAM, you can get the 5 M. policy, and you can also get a discount on HUB's rates.

https://www.hubinternational.com/en-CA/p......surance/

https://www.cammagic.org/post/magician-insurance

Good on you Donald being a professional.

This thread shares incredible information that, IMHO, is not openly shared or taught at the magic clubs. Now, I can hear people saying, that all you need to do is ask, which is true, yet if one doesn't know there needs a question to be or should be asked, how can it be asked?
Sure, we love magic and want to go out and do shows, so the 'these tricks are great' or 'have you seen this' type of lectures, yet the 'backside of the stage', things like this are happening.
I appreciate everyone's time spent answering, thank you.

I couldn't agree more. This forum is not just about marketing as so many people believe is what business is about. There is sooooo much more to being a performer than just the tricks and "getting out there and doing shows" (which has always bothered me when offered as advice by some here). It is all of the behind the scenes or "backside of the stage" topics and content that isn't found anywhere that is most important.

I always enjoy when these types of topics are brought up, as this is the place for them but there just aren't many getting into performing as there used to be, then couple this with the monkey-see, monkey-do way of learning that magician's prefer, and then the "I only feel the need to learn from other magicians (which most of which are amateurs or hobbyists) or at best just offer their opinions or theories of how they've done (or would do) things, and it quickly becomes a collection of non-effective discussions of misinformation.

There really does need to be more of this, I agree Wravyn.

I agree with what Donald has said about many insured requirements in recent years have required amounts of $3 million and it had now moved to the current $5 million as the new norm. As Danny was trying to point out above with all the talk about COIs is that it is more about having the client or venue being added to your policy as an Additionally Insured in the amounts they require, not about who offers magician's insurance at the best rates. Insurance is a component of business (and life) and should be understood and sought on much more than just price alone. Again, more common magician's thinking and mentalities.

Now right about now I can already hear some guys saying "I've been performing magic for over 30 years and I 1. Never, 2. Rarely, or 3. Have Not Ever been asked about having insurance, needing a Certificate of Insured, or being asked to have someone be added to my insurance policy. To that it tells me either you do not perform professionally or only work in very certain limited performance markets where you can slide by. In most consumer and professional markets - schools, cruise ships, colleges, corporate, fairs, festivals, park districts, etc. this is much more common. I feel more and more markets and mostly venues are requiring this.

Its such a shame most don't treat their performing more seriously or professionally as more of these types of questions would be presented here.

Unfortunately magic clubs do not really get into or teach (or even encourage) anything but tricks. They are truly underserving the profession and its members. For years I have suggested a lecture or series of lectures on the business side of magic and performing, and specialized topics such as working the school market, creating a magic performing business, and so on and have been told "that's not really what we do or what they want." Really? These clubs and associations need to present this not just ask members what they want. Many don't know what they need or want. Its crazy. Also many of the magic clubs themselves could use this information on how to run their club more as a business to increase awareness, membership, and create much greater value to their club or association through this type of content...but again, they don't.

This is also why I started this popular thread which has been very helpful to many - How Do I...Entertainment https://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/view......forum=44

Again, not taught at all in magic clubs at all.

Reading through Mindpro's reply leads to other questions that I never thought about. Setting up ones entertainment business, whether it is magic, juggling, band, DJ, etc. should one obtain an LLC? To get a COI, does one need to have an LLC, or can individual policies such as a life insurance policy, be acquired? I am going to guess that both are available, though the coverages would be different? Again, thank you.

If this has been covered in the linked thread, just say. I am going to read the linked thread so no need to repost what you have already shared.

No, you do not need to be an LLC or other corporate entity (S-Corp, C-Corp, Partnerships, etc.) as you can obtain the insurance just as a single or individual person entity. Also you do no need to be any of these to obtain a COI or Additionally Insured. Yes, both are available. Great questions.

Yes this is true but yes problem I have is that the thread is posted as a “tip”, when clearly it hasn’t been thought all the way through.

Then you sprinkle a little bit of just bad opinion on it and it can become very costly.

Yes it is the very thing that Mindoro and I try to get at but are shouted down by those of the “I’m entitled to my opinion” persuasion.


You’re right. This is not something you can just know or know what is better. It is what Mindoro is always saying about “surface level” knowledge. On the surface this may look like a good deal. Insurance is one of those very complex things that when something happens you just don’t want to get wrong. As Donald pointed out it is evolving so if you haven’t done this for decades you really have no clue how it works.

Plus it is tough with insuring another party. The idea that if you come in and make a mistake that costs a venue money, say $50,000, that you want THEIR insurance to cover it is mind boggling! And that was stated as advice here in this thread. Their premiums then skyrocket for the rest of time, or they pay it out of pocket. Someone’s house is the same deal. But when you only think of it from your own point of view this never occurred to anyone.

Why do you think all reputable remodeling is done by someone who is bonded and insured? The insurance protects them, the bond protects the third party. Professionals who have never had a claim against them for 30 years carry it.

In the end even if you are part time and you want to be taken as a professional, by the public or others performers, you need to act like one. People who get paid to work who do not do these things are not professionals in my book no matter how much they make out work.

Does a close up magician need insurance to do table work? I doubt it. But kids shows, acts at other venues or using volunteers should probably have it.

Yes you should set up some sort of business. Not for the COI but for a host of other reasons.

One other thing I should mention is that I include my wife as a part of my policy. I say performer and 1 employee when applying for the insurance, because she sometimes comes along as my roadie to help me set up and pack down (she doesn't perform with me). Even though she's not actually performing, she's involved, so I want her covered, too.

So, if you bring along other people to help you, make sure they're covered, too.

- Donald

[quote]On Aug 12, 2024, Dannydoyle wrote:

It is somewhat amusing that you opened that post indicating I didn't think the topic
through, and closed the post offering an opinion you clearly didn't think through.

A Close-up walk-around performer will need liability protection just as much as anyone else.
Every time you interact with another person or give/take an item, you are as open
to liability just as much as a stage performer asking for a volunteer.

It would seem clients often sense that risk as well, I have been asked for a COI
for close-up events more than anything else.