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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21556 Posts 
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Sorry Tom you are not in charge of that. Now you’re deciding what is Ashe’s isn’t said in free speech. That is your issue. Don’t read it if you don’t like it but sorry nothing here borders on hate speech or it is deleted. That is hyperbolic. That is just an opinion and has nothing to do with free speech.
You want it to be free speech for you, ADHD effective has to conform to you. No. Not even close. Maybe there would be less problems if you didn’t feel it was somehow up to you how others speak. Sorry but the “rules for thee but not for me” doesn’t fly.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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ed rhodes Inner circle Rhode Island 2904 Posts
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Quote:
On Aug 10, 2024, Wravyn wrote: When I asked if I could perform a street show at Waterfire, one of the first things they said was that I would need performer's insurance. I bookmarked this and am going to look into it.
"...and if you're too afraid of goin' astray, you won't go anywhere." - Granny Weatherwax
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ed rhodes Inner circle Rhode Island 2904 Posts
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Quote:
On Aug 10, 2024, Mindpro wrote: These are good points, but where would performers find insurance of this nature?
"...and if you're too afraid of goin' astray, you won't go anywhere." - Granny Weatherwax
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ed rhodes Inner circle Rhode Island 2904 Posts
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OK, did a Google search for "Magician's Insurance," and saved the results.
Mind you, in the roar of who's right about what, the MAIN subject of the thread seems to have been overshadowed. The MAIN subject, to me, was; Does a "part-time" magician NEED the same level of coverage as the full time co-magician by his side? If so, well and good. If not, what coverage would be suitable for a PART TIMER? Bearing in mind that if you are a part timer, you probably DON'T know what you need, where to find it, or how to manage the multiple sources a simple Google search can reveal.
"...and if you're too afraid of goin' astray, you won't go anywhere." - Granny Weatherwax
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Fedora Special user Arizona, usa 819 Posts
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Ed, you may want to ask Waterfire what level of liability coverage they require, you don't want to buy a policy that covers less than the venues you will be working at.
The Thimble suggestion was only for people who work rarely, if you are performing street shows with any kind of regularity you are going to need (and probably want) annual coverage. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21556 Posts
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Ed here is the main point.
Part time or full time means nothing to the insurance question. The reason is that to the person who requires you to have insurance, all they care about is the coverage. Your personal status of how much you perform isn’t relevant in the equation. The best thing to do is to find out directly from the venue and go from there. I believe they will have minimum requirements that you can then fulfill. No need for guess work. I get that it may seem attractive to try to buy as cheaply as possible. As Tom eluded to, and I completely agree with, is insurance is definitely one thing not to skimp on. Trying to buy one off insurance may not be the big bargain it seems. Obviously everyone’s situation is completely different and there is no universal truth. Except for one Tom put forth in that you never really know what coverage you have until you have to use it. Hopefully you never will. Good luck with the search.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10683 Posts
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Quote:
On Sep 1, 2024, Dannydoyle wrote: Yes, this is very true but this is also an issue with the much bigger picture. Only to the performers/magicians is this whole "part-time" vs. "full-time" a thing. Same for "close-up or street magician" vs. "stage magician." This is only a distinction and something perceived by the magician/performer. To venues, clients and customers there is no distinction or difference, it s all the same. They could care less what you call yourself or how you see yourself, whether you're "part-time" or "full-time" a "hobbyist" or something more. To them it is all the same. They are paying you or you are working for pay, so you are a professional. And professionals are required and expected to have/carry insurance - plain an simple. More importantly you will be glad you have it when something finally does happen (especially to those working with kids, families, and home events.) This is why it always amazes me to hear magicians say "but I'm only part-time" or my favorite "I'm a semi-professional!" This is nonsense. This is all in your head and your own perception and justification, to the venue, clients and customers you are a professional - period. With performing publicly and "being a professional comes a set of expectations which you are expected to adhere to. If not you should not perform publicly and just stay in your room or basement and perform for yourself or family and friends (that are probably fed up with you and your magic. Not everyone, especially women enjoy magic as much as you do.) It is important to understand all of this as well as the perceptions and expectations of those we are performing/working for. Like it or not, this is part of being a performer. Coverage should be about the policy and required/needed coverage and not something you look at on a gig to gig basis or with budget shopping. |
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imgic Inner circle Moved back to Midwest to see 1365 Posts
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How are the policies offered through SAM and IBM? Anyone have any experience?
"Imagination is more important than knowledge."
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3204 Posts
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While Part time or full timers would need the same amount of insurance coverage, the yearly insurance rates can be based on different factors. It’s all about the ‘odds’ of something happening. But this doesn't mean a part timers cost per event is cheaper, it’s actually a lot higher when you break it down. It would be good to know what some of the newer 'insurance for magicians' companies consider part time and how many working days is that.
It’s been several years, but our local magic club would do shows at a local theater that required coverage. I would buy a one-day policy from one of the companies that sold to entertainers for around $200.00. I can’t remember the name of the company; I got it from my local agent. The policy was for One Day. Today, I know some part-time magicians and Santa performers using Specialty Insurance. The rates for them are based on the number of days you work. https://www.specialtyinsuranceagency.com/insurance/performer Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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Fedora Special user Arizona, usa 819 Posts
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Quote:
On Sep 2, 2024, imgic wrote: They are pretty different from each other. IBM gets their insurance through Cadence, an old company you may have heard of. https://www.magician.org/resources/liability-insurance SAM and most other organization's insurance are administered by PEEP, they are backed by the Philadelphia insurance company. https://www.peepinsurance.com/dj-insuran......ers.html IBM's cost is based on income, the lowest rates are for those making less than $30,000 but goes up quite a bit from there. The aggregate is $5 million. PEEP is the same price up to $250,000 in income. It's aggregate is only $2 million. I don't see much of an advantage to IBM personally, Specialty is cheaper and is from a company that specializes in performers. PEEP is lower priced than both, but from a younger company. They also have more automation if you like that sort of thing. |
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thomasR Inner circle 1202 Posts
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I would highly recommend Specialty Insurance Agency - they have an online portal that makes getting COI's for clients very easy. Since they isnure so many performers, the odds are you won't even have to fill in the information as the event/venue will already be in the system if other performers are at the same event. The yearly policy they offer is very reasonable.
Another company that I used in the past is F. L. Dean - they seem to have shifted away from Entertainers and more to sporting events but they had very reasonable rates. Performers Insurance is just like Health Insurance in the USA.... you don't "need it" until you need it. |
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ed rhodes Inner circle Rhode Island 2904 Posts
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Thank you, everybody for answering my questions without condescending or being insulting.
"...and if you're too afraid of goin' astray, you won't go anywhere." - Granny Weatherwax
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21556 Posts
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Specially is in the third generation. Al started something that was a definite need to be filled at the time. Heck of a guy.
I have heard exactly ZERO horrible stories of dealing with them in 30 years. It is anecdotal evidence so take for what it is worth.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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| The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Tricky business » » Insurance tip for part-timers (6 Likes) | ||||||||||
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Posted: Aug 14, 2024 11:24 pm 
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