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smithart Special user Texas 944 Posts 
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I'm sure I'm not the first to suggest this, but if you have trouble with the math used in the standard set-up of the Invisible Deck, just play a few hours of Pyramid Solitaire. It uses the same rules for matching cards.
AKA Professor Memento
https://mementomysteries.com |
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Kaliix Inner circle Connecticut 2176 Posts
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I've never seen this game and you are definitely onto something with the memorization needed directly linked to Invisible Deck calculations. I've never come by that association easily and I'm curious to see if this will help.
Thanks for the tip.
Know that adversity is promised to all of us, what we do with it is what makes us special.
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karnak Special user 857 Posts
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I'm not good at multi-tasking (doing calculations in my head, however simple, while at the same time keeping track of my pattering, misdirecting, and otherwise performing).
So I gave up that method of working the Invisible Deck, and opted for a far simpler and easier "no math" setup and approach. (Joshua Jay has a great version in his popular "Magic: The Complete Course" book. Other variants exist, as well.) Apologies if you already knew of this option, or if it's otherwise off-topic or irrelevant.
For a supernatural chiller mixing magic (conjuring, prestidigitation, legerdemain) with Magic (theurgy, thaumaturgy, mysticism), check out MAGIC: AN OCCULT THRILLER at http://www.amazon.com/Magic-Occult-Thriller-Reed-Hall/dp/1453874836
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smithart Special user Texas 944 Posts
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Quote:
On Mar 5, 2025, karnak wrote: Although I was already aware of some of the other options, I think this is a perfect place to share those. Thanks for your contribution! Some of those change the display, and I'm more comfortable with the classic handling. If you haven't tried my suggestion, I would strongly encourage giving it a chance. It might not work for you, but who knows?
AKA Professor Memento
https://mementomysteries.com |
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spudster85 Loyal user Northern Kentucky 288 Posts
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Piff the Magic Dragon just had his Master, I mean Regular Class, through Vanishing Inc. He quickly talks about a way he set his ID up that requires basically no thinking to find the card. I believe Joshua Jay was on set for the filming, but off camera. When Piff explained it, everyone seemed to have never seen it before. I know I never had.
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drmagico Loyal user 261 Posts
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I have set up my invisible deck with the all the even cards on one side and odds on the other. If an odd card is chosen I just take out the cards with odds facing me and pull up their card. All the even cards are facing them but they will not notice that since their card is the only one backwards. Takes the math out of it.
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Alan Munro.jpg "View Profile") Inner circle Kentwood, Michigan, USA 6071 Posts
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Diet has a great deal to do with math ability. A low-inflammation diet, like the carnivore diet or ketogenic diet, gets rid of brain fog. Of course, many toxins must be avoided, especially in processed food.
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Kaliix Inner circle Connecticut 2176 Posts
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Don Alan Invisible Deck Stack: A3579JK(Spades) J9753A (Hearts) Now take the ROUGHED PAIRS and interlace Spades and Hearts, ie AS,JH,3S,9H, etc... For the clubs and diamonds, follow the KS by the KC,AD,JC,3D, etc...
Now there is only one decision, odd or even. Take the beginning of the stack above, and you'll notice that AS,JH,3S has the 2S in between AS and 3S, under the JH. Keep going in that stack and you'll see JH,3S,9H. The 10H is under the 3S which is in between the JH and the 9H kinda right where it should be in the order. One suit counts up, interlaced with the other suit counting down. Once you notice the pattern and understand that the cards are basically in order, the math is gone, and all one has to do is show the odd side when the spectator card is even or vice versa, then look for the card in stack order. I'm pretty certain the full stack and Alan's explanation can be found in In a Class by Himself, The Legacy of Don Alan. I wondered about posting this but I can't see this good idea dying in the pages of a book no one will read. This stack has changed the Invisible Deck for me. I no longer fear the math, and the stack makes so much sense, I'm starting to remember where the cards are because of the order. I can't recommend Mr. Alan's idea enough. Brilliant!
Know that adversity is promised to all of us, what we do with it is what makes us special.
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Nikodemus Inner circle 1565 Posts
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If you already know a random-looking MEMORISED DECK, it's child's play to set up an Invisible Deck. You just need to pair them as stack numbers 1 & 2, 3 & 4, 5 & 6 etc. This means you have all the odd stack number cards on one side, and all the even stack cards on the other side. All you need to remember is that if an odd stack-number card is named you find the NEXT card in the stack, but if an even number card is named you find the PREVIOUS card in your stack.
Unfortunately this won't work if you memorised deck is Si Sebbins, or some other stack that uses a repeating suit pattern like CHSD. In that case, you'll end up with all the black cards on one side, and the reds facing the other way. But it should work for popular stacks like Aronson, Mnemonica, Joyal etc. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 23104 Posts
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I guess I don't get it. You are not doing math on the fly. You are simply memorizing. I mean the 6 is ALWAYS with the 7 or however you set them up. There is no math. The suits never change. Why are you doing math at all? This really is not an effect requiring math.
If you are actually calculating every time then you might need to spend more time practicing. I think the worst thing for the magic hobby is thinking tricks are "self working" and can be done out of the box for people. This effect is a classic example in the difference between simple and easy. While the mechanics are simple, the presentation is not easy.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Kaliix Inner circle Connecticut 2176 Posts
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Practicing what exactly? Memorizing what two numbers sum to 13. I agree it should be more automatic; however, number brains cannot disassociate that connection.
I get tripped up because Invisible Decks decided they were too good for a Si Stebbins CHaSeD order. No, they had to use the SHCD order. Never made any sense to me, particularly since the Si Stebbins stack and CHaSeD order are famous, where the SHCD order isn't. Yeah, I changed mine to CHaSeD order. I've somehow gotten crap twice from other magicians for that order (like it was set in stone the ID would be SHCD order). Then I got turned on to Don Alan's special stack order. Alan's ID stack solves all the problems. All one has to remember is Odd side for an Even number and vice versa. 
Know that adversity is promised to all of us, what we do with it is what makes us special.
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 23104 Posts
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You’re making my point. No math needed on the fly.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Kaliix Inner circle Connecticut 2176 Posts
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Just because you say, No Math Needed, doesn't stop math-type brains from associating the numbers with a sum to 13. Don't think of a ZEBRA. Ha, you just did.
The practice isn't the problem; it's the lack of a proper stack that eliminates the math completely. Quote: On Jun 17, 2026, Dannydoyle wrote:
Know that adversity is promised to all of us, what we do with it is what makes us special.
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smithart Special user Texas 944 Posts
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When I associate 8 with 5, I do it before the math part of my brain kicks in. I may still do the math after, as in "yeah, that's 13," but the association is automatic. In fact, it's the same type of mental process you go through with a memorized stack.
I got my first Invisible Deck in the early 80s, when I was too dumb to realize I was supposed to have trouble doing the math or separating the cards. 
AKA Professor Memento
https://mementomysteries.com |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 23104 Posts
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Quote:
On Jun 18, 2026, Kaliix wrote: I really don't see what you are saying. If the association is made, then what is the issue? Even if they are in stack, the ZEBRA problem exists! Ha you just proved my point. Math type brains as you say exist whether they are in stack or not.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Kaliix Inner circle Connecticut 2176 Posts
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There is no association with a sum to 13 when using Alan's ID setup/stack. There is no reason. The only thing one has to think of is odd card >> show the even side; Even card >>> show the odd side, then count to the number. The stack obviates the need for any association other than odd or even.
Quote: On Jun 18, 2026, Dannydoyle wrote:
Know that adversity is promised to all of us, what we do with it is what makes us special.
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 23104 Posts
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So you’re claiming the math brain won’t kick in? What exactly has stopped it? What number are you counting to and why? You still have to do the math to 13 don’t you?
See since you still have to add to 13, and the cards are not in order you do that PRIOR to spreading. You know the suit on the other side and just look for the right card to spread. If you have them in order is irrelevant. All you really have to do is know what cards backs which other cards to completely eliminate and need for math. For example if someone says 7 of clubs, it will always and forever be backed with a 6 of diamonds or hearts depending on the set up. No math needed, just an association of the two cards. Math is eliminated. You just memorize 26 pairs. The deck can be in literally any order, just spread till you have the correct pair. Practice this as many times as needed for it to be second nature. (Answering your question of “practice what?”.) Always put the deck in the box so it is oriented with for example even facing the flap opening. No need to look at odd or even. So before you even pick up the box they tell you the name of the card, you know which card it is outside with, and how to take it out of the bed. No math needed and you spread to the card and split. No stack needed unless it makes you more comfortable.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Kaliix Inner circle Connecticut 2176 Posts
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Don Alan's Invisible Deck stack obviates the need to sum numbers or even remember what suit goes with what. Just flip to the odd or even side and count (up or down, depending).
Do you not get it? Look at the picture below... The suits are in numerical order. The AS at the front, then the JH with the 2S underneath it, then the 3S, then the 9H with the 4S underneath it, then the 5S, and so on. You are looking at the ODD side, which can display every EVEN card. Duh... The only thing I think about now is whether the spectator says an odd or even card. Just open to the opposite side and find the card in NUMBERICAL ORDER in the stack. If the spec says 6D, I'm just spreading past the middle for the 5D/7D, so I can spread the 6D from under the card between 5D and the 7D. The VALUE or SUIT of the card above the 6D (7C) never comes into play or into mind. There are no numbers to sum or suits to match. It's just counting. Simple and as foolproof as it gets. My deck will never be set up in any other order. Quote: On Jun 18, 2026, Dannydoyle wrote:
Know that adversity is promised to all of us, what we do with it is what makes us special.
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 23104 Posts
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You’re not getting my point, but are saying exactly what I’m saying.
I’m saying 3+2 and you’re saying 2+3. So cool.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Kaliix Inner circle Connecticut 2176 Posts
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I am not so sure...
I honestly believe that every ID sold should come stacked in the Don Alan ID stack order. The Don Alan stack requires no memorization of 26 pairs, no summing of digits to 13, nothing other than odd-side for even numbers (or vice-versa), and looking for the card in numerical order. There is nothing simpler. Any memorization of cards in an order should be saved for stack work, IMHO. The ID SHaCkeD order always messed with my Si Stebbins work when there is no need. Quote:
On Jun 18, 2026, Dannydoyle wrote: Quote: You said "For example if someone says 7 of clubs, it will always and forever be backed with a 6 of diamonds or hearts depending on the set up. No math needed, just an association of the two cards. Math is eliminated. You just memorize 26 pairs. The deck can be in literally any order, just spread till you have the correct pair."
Know that adversity is promised to all of us, what we do with it is what makes us special.
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Posted: Mar 5, 2025 02:00 am 
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