Cmmm,..
I'm NOT really trying to 're-name' this Forum....
But..

I'm looking for Thoughts, Ideas,...EXPERIENCE(!),
with,
working with Cotton..
instead of Silk.

After thousands of years of en-slavement,
....I'm campaigning,
to free the Mulberry Wurms...

cmm,...sorry.

I am,..trying to work with Cotton,..Hankercheifs.
But,...'the slippery stuff'.
...'Serpeant Silk'...'Color-changing Silk',....'Palmo work'.

Does any one have any experience,....advice,..to share?

My 'hang-ups', until now are..
they hang up(!). : (
And,...they take space(!).

But(!)...
the positive sides are......many. : )

Cost, Colors, 'convinves' (they 'look....'real'!)

Does Cotton....lossen-up?
Can it be...'treated'.....made slippery?

Any thoughts about compressing them better,
into smaller objects,..
like Hank Balls?
...should I 'simply' go...'BIGGER'?

On the side,
did 'the Old-timers' always use Silk?
Was Silk,..'the standard' Handkercheif, at one time?

Thanks for any input.
And remember:
Mulberry Wurms are Wurms, as well!
gallagher

I don't think you can use cotton for typical silk uses.

I have used Polyester or acetate "butterfly linings" (typically used for inner linings of coats and such). At that time they were available in a variety of bright colors and were quite thin. They were never a substitute for real silk as far as packing but could be used well for "double color changing silk, silk through wrist, silk on/off rope and things that used a larger holder like change bag or a tube trick. They wear MUCH longer than silk (especially if a spectator touches them on a regular bases). They are easier to hem than silk and can be colored with Permanent markers.
These are harder to find now but I imagine they still exist.

I do understand your feelings about Silk. I'm thankful for the sacrifice and honor lives lost but I still use silk.

- Mary Mowder

Here is an image of an 18" "Silk" Made and also a link to that post.

Https://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/uplo......4414.jpg

https://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/view......38590#10

For most magic that depends on the particular qualities of silk -- how much it can compress and expand, and it's smoothness -- cotton or other fabric is usually not going to work very well, but there are some effects with handkerchiefs in general that can be done with either silk , polyester , or cotton handkerchiefs or bandanas. Have a look at the book by Karl Fulves, "Self-Working Handkerchief Magic" (published by Dover). There are a number of effects in the Fulves book that don't necessarily require silk, so a cotton handkerchief can work. I love Phoa Yan Tiong's Cut and Restored Handkerchief, which is usually done with a silk handkerchief, but can also be done with a regular cotton handkerchief. Because that effect involves actually destroying a handkerchief each time, I buy inexpensive 12 packs of white cotton handkerchiefs and send them through a wash cycle a few times with fabric softener added to make them soft and pliable. (new ones are too stiff). Various versions of burned and restored handkerchief or effects where a knife or a pencil is apparently pushed through the center of handkerchief, but then the handkerchief is shown to be unharmed can be done with cotton handkerchiefs. I've seen a "Devil's Handkerchief" made from cotton bandanas.

By the way, Silk acetate does not have any silk in it. You can check the material content to be sure.

Sadly, you will have to find some at a brick-and-mortar store to see if it is light enough (even if it is the wrong color) and get the particulars like weight , content and manufacturer off the bolt cardboard to order online.

- Mary

Quentin Reynolds' 5 Minutes with a Pocket Handkerchief is a wonderful routine using a cotton handkerchief.

On "Live Kidbiz Vol. 1" (Originally VHS, and later re-released as DVD), David Ginn shared a routine called "Sun and Moon" that used cotton bandanas instead of silks.

I think the trick is shown in the cover photo for the DVD / VHS packaging, and accompanying book.

It's been a while since I watched the video.

https://ginnmagicshop.com/product/live-kidbiz-1/

It looks like it's sold out on his website, but you might be able to track down a copy elsewhere.

----

I believe that the trick premise is an old one, not invented by David himself.

This link / trick description showed when I did a Google search:

https://www.magicians-scrapbook.co.uk/sun-and-moon-trick/

- Donald

P.S. There's also a coin trick and a kidshow prop with a similar "Sun and Moon" name, so searching online is a little complicated.

Acetate can be made of cotton fibers or wood pulp.

- Mary

This thought occurs as I consider effects that can be done with cotton handkerchiefs rather than silk handkerchiefs:
I've never heard a magician say "I have here a red cotton. Now watch as I push this red cotton into my hand ..."

I try always to say handkerchief kerchief, scarf, or sash. Pocket square is an option but kids don't know what that is.

When we are talking about a tiny thin silk it seems clear to me that it is just a magic prop with no other use but I still try not to call it a silk.

Sometimes I'll do a save like "I'll put the silk... handkerchief in my hand. LOL

- Mary

Second attempt...

Don't ask.....

"Jesus saves."

.....I'm not Jesus.

Wrayvn,...
this was actually YOUR fault!

Watching Quentin Reynolds,...I 'copied' HIS link,...
...and lost every thing previously copied.....

New day,..
New love....

Mary,... : )
Polyester.
I actually FOUND(!) 'Butterfly Linings'(!).
...this could be good! : )

Researching Polyester,...
I read the fascinating story,..
of 'the Ester sisters'.
Poly.
Molly.
...and Holly.

Molly Ester, came up with edible plastic.
In doing so,
became terribly over-weight.
The word 'mollig' is still used,
in her memory....

Holly, came up with plastic Christmas decore,...
but,
being 'seasonal',..
didn't amount to much.
(It's rumoured:
Her direct family is responsible,
for the ever in-creasing Christmas season.....)

Poly Ester hit it big!
"Let's make EVERYTHING , from Plastic!"
(It's rumoured,. she invested heavy,
in Velveta Cheese....)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . .. .. . . . . .

Sorry,...

Mary,...ACTUALLY,
....TRUTHFULLY(!),
your mentioning of 'The Double Color Changing Silk'
IS..
what got me going.

A couple of years ago,
in another Forum;
when asked:
"What do you open with?"
YOU responded...
"Double Color-changing Silks".

That's what I'm up to..

Actually,
I had written Mrs. Rice,
about 'Color-changing Silks'....
she had responded:
She had two...
All be it,..they didn't wear well.

I then sewed one,...
from Acetate,..
but things were/are..
too stiff.
( https://www.ikatbag.com/2013/12/magic-handkerchief.html )

I let it.

Do you know 'the Acetate Brothers' story......?

: )

Coat lining..... : ) !
This....FEELS....good(!).
...LOOKS.....good(!..!).
...fingers are crossed!

Mary,
the next time we meet,
remind me,
to let you buy me a coffee!
: )

David.
You're right(!), about washing and washing and washing Cotton(!).
I spent the WHOLE weekend(!),..
down at the river(!..!),..
watching my wife..
scrub,
and scrub,..
and scrub....

She kept mumbling:
"When I ever find this David Todd guy....."

I (!), had a GREAT time!
Using my 'no longer needed' Mulberry wurms,
...to fish.

Wravyn,...!
if that 'Quentin Reynalds clip' HADN'T have been so good...
I could be really mad at you!
If anybody HASN'T seen it..
https://youtu.be/W0iQ7hLpBVA?si=e7UOwMK6VcdDXRdD
....it's really nice!

Thanks Wravyn.

Still,...I'm looking for,..
'shorter',...pieces,..with 'movement'.
'In-betweens',..
I call them.
'Elbows'.

I want to use three pieces,
between
three Juggling stunts.

Donald. Thank you!
I am,...HAPPILY(!) aware, of David Ginn's work.
....especially,
with 'Silks'. : )

In fact,...
his 'simple',...Production,
is what I use.
As well as his 'John Booth' Silk Rolling technique.
I'll look for his 'Sun and Moon' routine,..
mainly because,..
I like his work(!).
Thanks.

Folks,..
this is NOT related,..
but,..
while setting up,
my act,..
I plan to use THIS song..
https://youtu.be/2HYwMSs7oFU?si=I9JOR7TakUI2-x7N

Hey,..
I really appreciate your thoughts.
Thank you.
Gallagher

p.s.: David, 'washed' Handkercheifs..WORK(!),
with the Serpeant Silk(!).

...and,
you have to admitt,..
It makes MORE sence,..
putting a
'Hand'-kercheif, in the hand,..
then a ......

....back to fishing.
: )