When I look at all the talented coin magicians today, I see a lot of vanishes, and the magician making a point of really, really showing their hands to be empty. And that's it. I recently listened to one of those magicians, whose work I respect, and he said that he considers himself a technician and likes to present on Ticktok, Instagram, or other short visual media.
Plots are rare, but when I see them, they are more or less the same -Three Fly, barehanded Matrix, Charming Chinese Challenge, Wild Coin or three coin vanishes. Often, these are done with gaffed coins. Although I appreciate the talent, I feel that another talent is sorely missing from these guys. And that is to create structured routines to entertain audiences, not impress magicians.
Back in the day I used to be a technician, and my routines were my interpretation of the standard routines going around - Matrix, Coins Across, Coins through table, etc. But at some point I wanted to expand my repertoire, and that meant developing interesting or new plots, or variations on plots, and develop shows I could do to entertain my audience. So first, my focus shifted from impressing magicians to impressing laymen, then developing new ways to entertain them. My biggest influence was David Roth, who convinced me that prop magic was the way to go as it made the routine more interesting and more theatrical.
As I got older, I tried to think of things that I would do if I had to perform for a group at the Magic Castle.

But what are your thoughts on today's magicians and coin magic in general?

It's TikTok magic. Compressing things into little bites. There's some cool moves but the format discourages everything else you talked about.


Not that those things can't be done in short form. I think of Curtis Kam's teapot as a well structured quick one.

David Roth's hole and sleeve bits got me thinking outside the box, too.
I'm always looking at little knick knacks at Dollar Tree and thrift stores thinking what story I could tell with them and where I could put a coin with them.
I haven't performed in a long time but I'm of a mind to get going again because there's so much in my head I want to get out.

Henry Hay said that coin magic was the hardest branch of sleight of hand and also the least rewarding. Unlike card magic, coins don't have a lot of built-in story to draw from. (It does have the universal appeals of familiarity and fascination with money.)

Michael, you've mentioned some of the standard routines, but probably the biggest one is The Miser's Dream, with a plot that is basically series of productions. (Coins are still better off than Billiard Balls, which really only have one plot.)

So what you are saying makes a lot of sense. It takes a lot of creativity to create more meaningful routines with coins, when you are basically limited to productions, vanishes, transpositions, and penetrations. That means you are almost forced (as you pointed out) to bring in other props. For me, Matrix effects are one of the best examples of doing this successfully.

Considering the fact that card "magic," and "magic" in general, suffers from becoming more and more just a display of technical skill, it probably shouldn't be surprising that coin magic is impacted even more by these attitudes.

(Or the flip side of the coin, self-working or tricks that still don't convey any real plot.)

It takes a lot of work to make it look like you're not doing a lot of work.

Certainly a good point made. I try to tell a story with my routines in an attempt to make the magic relatable to a lay audience. I think it was writing by Darwin Ortiz that originally got my attention on this topic. "Why should they care?" was his premise.

That said, storytelling is difficult with coins.

For me, the most entertaining "new breed" coin magician is Eric Jones. He manages to capture my imagination, not just my attention, and he does it without storytelling.

Coins have become less of a 'natural/normal object' in recent decades.
Long gone are any assumptions about a spectator's familiarity with size, weight or texture.
You can't borrow one any useful size for most effects, so they are viewed with suspicion.
Toss in an easy find of gimmicked and gaffed coins. It is esy to understand why many observers think "skill" over "must be magic"

One solution is to use alternative 'coin-like' objects, especially in impromptu situations.
You hard-fought skills need not go to waste!

I am thinking of re-working some of my published coin effects to feature alternative objects.

Poker chips, buttons, even washers are common coin substitutes. They may also have more "personality" in the sense of potential for weaving story-based plots.

I use flat washers a lot. They come in the same sizes as the coins I use.

Michael, of the effects that you've published, what do you think best represents the type of stories you like to tell with coins?

Well, I have so many. My current 20 - 25 min convention show opens with my MIGRATE (my favorite patter for one of my routines), then Twilight Zone Wild Coin, Conviction Prediction, S.E.M., and The Other Hand. All are different, and tell a story. The props you use help to develop that story.
From my book, story tricks (more entertaining patter tricks), offhand I love my Thumb through Coin, Magnetic Coins, Specciolini brothers, Tallahassee Jumping Coins, Three Coin Monte, Two Coin Monte (Reverse Matrix), Case Solved, Wishing Well, Triple Play, and of course my Miser's Rap. You can see a lot of my routines performed on my YouTube channel, Rubinstein Coin Magic (as well as performances of sleights taught in my book).
I like to try to make my audience smile, and I do it with my punny sense of humor. I go for the groan, the bigger the better, which is why I only work for "groan"ups...
But of course there are more straightforward routines as well. Quick tricks are good, but I mostly enjoy performing my showpieces, and never try to show off skill when I perform. I like to think of the presentation over method. If you have a good presentation, and not seem like you are working, you are putting on a good show.
But of course, my humor is my own, and I am sure others have looked at the material from my book and made it their own, which is what I think all should aspire to do - reflect your own personality into the magic you do. Hope that answered your question.
So much more but these are the tricks that come to mind.

Here in Canada, $1 and $2 coins, plus quarters, are the most common coins, but I rarely see them. Most people use instant card payments, etc. No one carries coins anymore — if they receive them in change, they quickly go into a jar somewhere.

While I have a CDN $2 shell, I have rarely used it. Frankly, it doesn't have the charm of real silver for me, although I agree that, as it's familiar, it's more believable.

I think I'm going to go all-in on some young Victoria half crowns, which are a delight to work with, and play up my heritage story to go along with it.

In the hopes of inspiring creativity here - using "borrowed objects," using alternative coins, a multi-faceted routine on a theme, story opportunities, etc. ..

I offer a FREE copy of my "Tap3Times" eBook from lybrary.com Just write me ken@eversway.com Any feedback can be direct rather than public if desired.

Scripted to use three borrowed quarters, but can use any small objects (found impromptu or related to function/audience theme) I used candy at a Christmas party and stones by the creek.
No gimmicks or gaffs or knuckle busters. Live audience engagement skills a must.

You can humm the song "Tap, Three Times," and get spectators to join in if desired - or just attract focused attention.

combines transportation, penetration and translocation in an "affinity theme" that allows for many personalized or theme stories. Do you have Cold Reading skills?

uses "Anthropomorphizing and Personification" techniques that can support impromptu stories (or prepared ones)

Some SWAY sleights/techniques that may be new to some that can be used in other effects.

can be an opener with Prelude Framing that can segue to other, more complex coin effects.

Most of all - it is fun or everyone and does not come across as a "skill demonstration"

I have a notebook of things my character would be into or have access to.
He's a Hillbilly/Cowboys type like my Grandpa (and like I was when I lived with my Grandpa) so I have things around that.
I don't know if I want to give away too many of my ideas in case someone does it better but a simple one is a camp coffee miser's dream.

Thanks, Michael. I suspect that if I were in your shoes, I would find it equally difficult to narrow it down much more than that.

I don't know how successful I am, but I do try to infuse everything I do with my own unique elements.

A lot of great advice has been shared on this thread, especially the suggestion to use alternatives to coins.

This definitely opens up more storytelling possibilities, but I think also loses some of the universality that coins (historically) provided. For example, most people know what casino chips are, but many will have no emotional attachment to them as a symbol for money.

I also think that coins continue to have symbolic power, because even if they are rarely used in a modern context, they remain an important part of our entertainment, within genres of history, fantasy, horror, and even science fiction. That's actually a benefit to the coin magician, because we are not limited to recognizable denominations. We can create our own coins, with their own backstory, and still leverage our historical legacy of methods and effects.

"Coins are the accounting of magic"

~Hofzinser's Cousin

The thing is.....if we are out in public...and I pull a coin out of a kids ear, it'll get a bigger/better response than the technician stuff Michael is talking about.
Technically IMHO I am very capable. And I use these skills.
But when I grab my Bucket and produce coins from the audience....it's pretty difficult to find any coin magic that comes anywhere near to impressing an audience.

I know I am biased, but I think magic with coins is more interesting than magic with cards. People know what trick decks are, even if they don't. No one suspects coins as being gaffed, even if they are. The most common theme with cards is pick a card and then find it. Coins are just better.

"When I look at all the talented coin magicians today, I see a lot of..."
(Michael Rubinstein)

"The thing is.....if we are out in public..."
(Zauberman)

"It's TikTok magic."
(Critter)

"Here in Canada,..."
(Rutabaga)

It seems, to me:
It's quite 'relative',
to WHERE we are looking,..

I think,..Coin Magic,
...Magic in general,
has a broader 'stage' today,
then ever before.

.. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

That said,
I beleive Coins,
are MUCH more 'believible',
in MORE situations,
then....Cards;
because,
Coins,
(still are!)
found more commonly,
in..the 'real world'.

[In a Restaurant,
ask to borrow a Coin,...virsus a pack of Cards.....]

Therefore,...
(potentially!)
more magical.

gallagher

p.s.: Cards win out,
with the 'visuality'.
But,....

p.s.s.: My heart tells,
what my tongue doesn't....
I like Magic,
that tells 'it's own story'.

"So much truth,
gets lost,
in words."
(Wittgenstein)

I don’t know, I like both genres, coins and cards, and play with both regularly. I think both are great examples of magic. Mostly being a coin guy, I’ve always liked carrying a few around with me everywhere I went. I liked card magic, but it didn’t click with me as good early on. But now, I’m sure happy to have given it another go because there’s some brilliant stuff in there.

I think between a good coin guy, card guy and a consummate close up guy like let’s say a Doug Conn, well, it would be quite difficult to win that race against him. I feel better now doing both coins and cards, because if all you do is one or the other it can look and feel like all the same stuff, no matter how you dress it up. Of course, if people are there to just see a great coin guy or card guy, then that is what they expect and are good with. But when you mix it up a bit, the variety can stimulate better interest and participation. Now anything can be argued and of course, to each his own, and of course it has a bit to do with personality and presentation. But I think a little test of the three genre’s I mentioned would show the greater reality. It’s sorta like choosing between Frank Sinatra, Michael Jackson or Beyoncé in concert…Just what is it and how much of it do you want to see? Each one serves up a great meal, with one eclipsing the other as per your taste & desires.

So, while you can prepare a coconut many different ways, eventually you would get tired of eating what you know is basically a coconut. Any variety would enhance it, and a bit of a fruit salad I think would be a welcomed offering. But what is the best between coin and card magic, hmmmmmm…both can be quite exceptional, born from the basics of what they both always were and then our abilities to keep creatively dressing them up and calling them a different name, or something like that.