What is the largest audience you've performed for? What advertising was used?

I think it was probably 600 at the Lobero Theatre in Santa Barbara about a million years ago, doing my cards and doves act.

Great question. Mine was 80,000+ (85,000 depending of different reports) back in 1985 at the very first Farm-Aid in Champaign, Illinois (40 years ago this September). Major media advertising was used. There was quite the high-profile interest in this event hosted by Willie Nelson, John Mellencamp and Neil Young.

Mine was always small because tickets sales weren't that important. Daycares and Kidshows were small groups. But even with the evening illusion show 500 was a big crowd for me. Advertising for the big shows were always for fundraising shows, so it wasn’t hard to get free ads in the newspapers, midday tv news spots, etc. It really depended on how strong the sponsors were. I liked the small towns because people there were good about supporting local groups. And especially when it had something to do with the local Fire or Police dept’s. When calling and selling ad space for a program book, I love being able to say, “I am calling for the police department, can you support us?” lol

Of course, times have changed, and newspaper and TV ads aren’t the best places anymore to get the word out.

Tom

800 - School assembly.

It was after this I decided to increase my discount for the 2nd and 3rd shows on the same day and location. Its better for everyone, especially me!

PS I predict Mindpro will be the winner. LOL

Six hundred is a good number. Do you think the visual and audible levels were sufficient for a group of that size?

My best friend played Farm Aid with Deana Carter in the 90's. Lots of technical challenges he said from the use of multiple mics and mixes. Did you use just one mic?

Yes, fundraisers seem to attract a lot of support. I had a promoter friend who always used the Police or Firemen as his fund raiser benefactor. He would oversell the venue by 50% knowing many supporters would buy tickets, over the phone, yet never come to the gig. His local phone sales system was a wonder to behold!!!!!

I'm not looking for a winner, just some good ideas that worked in the past and might be resurrected in some form in todays market. The school system is a very good idea with discounts for two or more presentation in a day..

At that theatre, yes they were. Most of what we did (it was a two-hour show with several magic acts) was big and visual with very little talking except for a mentalist, but even he had good acoustics. My act was silent with live accompaniment.

As a musician, I've probably played to crowds of several hundred. As a speaker, I've spoken to thousands at a time. But as a magician, I can't remember performing to crowds larger than about a hundred or so.

As I recall, most of my magic gigs averaged between 30 and 100.

Wouldn't it be great if the Magic crowds were the size of the Speaking Engagements? What's the difference?

As someone who has booked both for decades - People come to speaking engagements to learn, improve, educate, and improve themselves. Most come to entertainment just to casually be entertained (hopefully).

Forgive me .. I really should have said ... "What is the difference in Advertising?"

Slim,

The larger speaking events are often backed by a group of organizers, sponsors, and even the speakers themselves, all of whom have a vested interest in the event's success. This creates a ripple effect of promotion that a single magician, often operating independently, would struggle to replicate with paid advertising alone.

This is another example of why word of mouth can be much better than paid advertising.

Even the big-name speakers would never go it alone, it is always backed by a group of people.

I guess magicians just need more friends. lol


Tom

I said elsewhere that one of the problems with magic not being as popular as other forms of entertainment is that there are no "celebrities." Actors, singers, bands, and others often show up in the tabloids; magicians never do. People in this country seem to be obsessed with celebrities because they are larger than life: they are individuals who are good (okay, sometimes not) at what they do, and have interesting lives, and the public can relate to them if even vicariously. They say things that we can relate to and feel about.

Magicians for the most part are not relatable. We see them in a show and then they disappear. Who are they? What's their life like? What do they want? Why do they do magic? What do they say? It's all a mystery. And how can we relate to a rabbit disappearing or the lady floating?

So yeah, advertising and promotion are different here because we are a mystery to the public. Why should someone come see us when they have no clue who we are? We don't show them during the performance and then we go away.

So true George, wise perception. This is exactly why I wrote the book Press & Media For Entertainers so magicians could utilize the same media opportunities that are utilized by other high-profile personalities. Most tend to only use this locally but it works on all levels. However, it takes a concerted effort as it does not just happen on its own. It must be part of your marketing and promotion plan consistently. Great insight!

Sorry if this is going off-subject, Slim King.

When I joined the Cafe, back around 2005, there were a number of arguments about whether magic by itself is entertaining. Back and forth back and forth. Some were insisting it is, and others insisting it isn't. I piped in somewhere along the line and said that, in general, people are more interested in people than in things, and boy did that raise some hackles.

But think about it, and I've seen this. A guy is sitting there at a table, holding a deck of cards and looking like he has a broomstick up his rear end. His whole attitude is "I'm challenging you." So he finds your card several times in several different ways. And then what? Who is he, and why is he doing this? He didn't touch us and he didn't give us anything to relate to, other than "Lookit what I can do." Why should we care? So we forget about him.

Or worse. People, for some reason, love to make assumptions. For many years, when I told someone I was a set designer, many immediately assumed I taught at a high school. And you should have seen their faces when I said I didn't. When I went out to buy something for a show, which was rare, and mentioned it was for a theatrical performance, many immediately said, "Oh, it's for the school play." And you should have seen their faces when I said it wasn't. I've seen friends mention they're magicians, and the first comment is, "Oh, you do birthday parties." In one case, when he said he didn't, the question became "Oh, is that because you do blue material?" I am not exaggerating.

So if we (magic performers in general) don't give the public an idea of who we are and why we do this, they will make assumptions and expect that we live up to those assumptions. Given what we all see about other entertainers, I totally believe that the public in general wants to be more interested in the magician and who he/she is and what he/she has to say than in the deck of cards or the rabbit box or the sword box. But try to get some magic performers to accept that.

So yeah, the advertising and the media are hugely important, but I think they need to go beyond the tricks and focus more on the performers themselves: turn them into real people, warts and all.

I don’t think this will be that far off topic, because like me, I know Slim likes to talk about advertising.

We hear it all the time, “word of mouth is the best advertising you can get.” But we only think of word of mouth as being chatter about something from the past. They watched the show, it was great, and now they will start talking about it and that should be enough to bring more shows in.

OK, this may be a shock to some, but that word of mouth may not be all we think it is, because it is a fact that, Future Buzz Outperforms Past Testimonials Every Time. So now the question becomes how do we 'create' word of mouth before the show has taken place. Well advertising is our first thought, and the next thought is, it takes a lot of money to advertise. But this is when a different kind of thinking needs to kick in. Traditional word-of-mouth marketing operates in the rear-view mirror. People experience something, then share their thoughts about what happened. But there's a far more potent force at play with anticipatory word-of-mouth, the excitement, speculation, and conversation that builds around something before it occurs. This forward-looking buzz carries unique psychological advantages. When people talk about past experiences, they're reporting facts. When they discuss upcoming events, they're investing emotionally in possibilities. They become co-creators of the narrative, building anticipation not just in others, but reinforcing their own excitement and commitment to attend.

So this may help explain why speakers do a better job of talking it up beforehand. And even why we see the ‘bad’ magicians getting as much work as some of the ‘good’ ones. These ‘bad’ magicians, as we call them, are so much better at projecting a real person standing up there on stage. They connect with the audience well enough to be seen as a friend, and creating a group of fan/friends is the goal. Not only will they talk about past shows they will promote a friends next show. Think about it this way: when someone says "You have to see this magician perform next week," there's an urgency and anticipation that past reviews simply can't match. The human brain is wired to be more excited about potential experiences than remembered ones. This is why movie trailers work better than movie reviews for driving ticket sales.


The most successful preceding word-of-mouth campaigns don't just fill seats for one event; they build lasting communities of advocates who become your extended marketing team for future projects. When people feel genuinely invested in your success, they become partners in creating buzz, not just targets for your messaging. This approach requires thinking like a community builder rather than a traditional marketer. Instead of asking "How can I get people to promote my event?" the question becomes "How can I create an experience so compelling that people naturally want to be part of spreading the excitement?"

No, the goal isn't just to generate pre-event chatter, but to make the act of promoting your event feel like participation in something meaningful, turning marketing from interruption into invitation.

Tom

And that's been one of my pet peeves since forever. A lot of pre-show buzz is about "the magician" or "the magician who will levitate an elephant." Huge top-liner acts don't say "the singer" or "the singer who will sing such-and-such." They say "Taylor Swift" or "Lady Gaga" or whoever. The ads are about them, the people, the individuals, the names, the expectation. That's what creates buzz.

When I see an ad that says "John the Magician," I want to gag. To me, it reads like they're putting themselves in second place to their tricks. Do we see "Selena Gomez the Singer?" or "Bruno Mars the Singer?" I haven't seen anything like that. All these people started out as names, as themselves, as folks who had something to say. And as they got bigger and bigger so did the names to the point that people know who they are.

Tom, your comment "You have to see this magician perform next week" should be "You have to see Joe Schmoe next week." After the show, the magician will more than likely be forgotten, but if Joe Schmoe gives the audience something that touches them at an emotional level, Joe Schmoe will be remembered. So Joe Schmoe needs to promote himself as a likable guy with something to say besides "pick a card." The audience has to care about him, and not so much his elephant levitation.

Why? Because levitating an elephant is a stunt, a special effect, smoke and mirrors. But people will be far more interested in who Joe Schmoe is if he comes across as a real person, a regular guy, a human being, and yes, an interesting celebrity. Afternoon talk shows have guests who talk about themselves as real people.

And BTW, Tom, movie trailers are about promoting the films; reviews are about what someone (a critic) thought of them. They are not designed to promote the film.