Ha! Dream on.

There's been a lot of back-and-forth recently about amateurs and professionals, so I thought I'd post a rant... er... some thoughts about a system of learning that has worked for centuries but is not all that well known for some reason.

We all know about those great artists from the Renaissance and after: DaVinci, Michelangelo, Bernini, Ghiberti, Botticelli, and others. But we don't always realize that back in their day they weren't considered artists: they were considered craftsmen. They had their own workshops where they did work for hire and trained others. The training consisted of an apprentice system, where a kid was sent to a workshop to study a craft, be it sculpture or whatever. The kid's parents paid for the kid's education. At first he was an apprentice, sweeping floors and doing other menial work. Eventually, based on ability and work ethic, he could become a journeyman and begin to help the master with smaller tasks and eventually do more and more work. Later, if the master thought the journeyman was ready, the master would invite the journeyman to apply to apply to become a master, at which point he could leave and start his own workshop if he wanted. This whole process generally took years.

And lo and behold, that's where the word "masterpiece" comes from: a journeyman's masterpiece was essentially his senior thesis, where he could show that he was ready to become a master.

The same system still holds--and works--in many trade unions, where you begin as an apprentice and go from there. In my own field, theatrical design, many designers come out of school with their MFAs and latch on to an established designer for a while, learning all the stuff they were never taught in school (mostly the business end), making connections, and generally sliding into the field. It works.

Now, do I think for a split second that this would have a chance in magic? Sure some magicians have had mentors and teachers; Jay Marshall, for instance mentored several, and I had a mentor back in the old days. But it takes a level of interest and dedication on both parts that I don't believe is real in magic since the vast majority are hobbyists.

And there's my rant... er, my thoughts on the matter.

Great rant George. The missing point is all realized and accepted these different levels and the process. They were encouraged and enforced. It was about getting education, training, and experience. The minute they want just the secrets to the tricks and avoid and disregard the levels is the process is the moment this all goes off the tracks.

This is exactly why Danny, myself and a few others have been saying just do it or fly little eagle fly is only encouraging those to avoid the process, disrespect the different levels, and oppose mentors, coaches, and apprenticing. It discourages the process and encourages the "learn as you want and don't worry about what others (the industry and community members that do respect the process) think."

It should not be about feelings, false encouragement, fake-it-til-you-make it, and all of that other counterproductive nonsense.

I suspect this is part of the larger cultural shift. It's not just that magicians are not connected to the magic community (so that it is no longer able to police itself); people are not connected to community in general.

Being part of a community comes with obligations, something that many people have never experienced. In the context of magic, this leads to exposure, IP theft, and a focus on artless mechanics.

Is there a way to create a path into the magic community? Is there a way to create an apprenticeship system and make it normative for those with an interest in magic?

I don't know, George, but I hope that it is.

The reality, as I see it, is that most people who are into in magic in some form or other are not interested in performing magic: they are interested in doing tricks. And there's nothing to be done about it.

Aa Walter Cronkite used to say, "And that's the way it is."

Yep, George, that's the way it is. And there is nothing wrong with that, because a magic hobby is just like any other hobby, it’s yours to do as you wish. Much like the fishing pole, you can use it to catch little fish, big fish, or just play in the water with it. It’s all called fishing, but you should have seen the one that got away.

As for passing on the art, and mentoring. Back in the day the serious magic students would seek out the mentors, today the mentors are seeking out the students. There is not much demand because mentoring in magic just like in some other arts has changed over the past few years, and one on one mentoring is fast becoming a thing of the past. A new aspiring magician can now purchase books online, watch hundreds of hours of performance techniques on YouTube, access digital archives of historical magic texts, and join global communities like the one we are on right now. Social media and forums have created vast networks where learners can get feedback from multiple sources rather than relying on a single mentor. And in the students' mind, they think this is enough, and for some it is.


While I know mentoring and coaching can be a big help to some, I personally have never been a big fan of it because people habits (the good and bad ones) are catching. A true mentor is not just a teacher but a partner in your growth, helping you unlock your potential and leave your own mark on the craft. The mentor serves not only as a source of expertise but also as a role model, guide, and inspiration. You have to choose them wisely.

Tom

Tom, I can't agree that a magic hobby is just like any other hobby, because it is an art unlike any other art.



I also can't agree that "this is enough... for some." An influencer is not a mentor, and any confusion "learners" have to that effect contributes to the lack of guardrails that protect our art and those in it (including ultimately those rare hobbyists who seek to continue).



Your caveat concerning the potential for bad mentors is a good one, consistent with what most of us have spoken about either implicity, or in the case of MindPro, posted repeatedly in neon letters.

Doesn't that just mean we need better mentors, and almost as importantly, a way for the true acolytes to identify them?

Yes, magic can be considered an art form, and it can be seen as a performance art. But it’s not just magic, many hobbies require skill development. In fact, the process of learning and improving skills is often what makes hobbies so satisfying and engaging. Theoretically, anything can become a hobby if you enjoy doing it regularly in your free time. The beauty of hobbies lies in their diversity and personal nature, what captivates one person might bore another, yet both perspectives are equally valid.

Also, many people don't realize that hobbies can even generate income and still be considered a hobby. Gambling, while risky, serves as a recreational pursuit for many who enjoy the thrill and strategy involved. Stock market investing can evolve from a financial necessity into an engaging hobby, with enthusiasts spending hours researching companies, analyzing trends, and discussing market movements.

As for needing more magic mentors, there has never been a better time to learn magic than today. Learning magic without a mentor is highly feasible thanks to today’s resources, but it requires discipline, discernment, and active engagement with communities to overcome the lack of personalized guidance.

Tom

I have to agree with Tom on a couple of points. From what I've read in the Cafe over the past twenty years, and from what I've seen and heard outside, the vast majority of people who are into magic consider it a hobby like any other hobby. They make of it what they want. They are mostly interested in doing tricks, not in performing magic. And I don't see anything wrong with that.

For them to go from doing tricks to learning how to perform magic takes a level of interest that most of then just don't have. Having more resources and mentors and so forth won't help. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink if it doesn't want to.

What ticks off a lot of us is when someone buys a packet trick or two and imflicts it on a friend or relative or does it at the magic club and then calls himself a magician and thinks he is now in the same circle as a full-time professional.

Yes, I think we are all of one mind on this. "Hobbyist" can be a broad term, and normally should not be a pejorative one. If I want to collect magic or learn sleights in my basement (though we don't really have basements in Texas), that can be a rewarding experience and well worth the effort. And if that is what you want to accomplish, I agree with Tom that there are more resources available than ever to do that. (At some point I would like to discuss the popularity of magic in the late 19th and early 20th century. One of the great resources available is the variety of works published during that time that are now in the Public Domain.)

There are, in fact, a lot of different magic hobbies to which Tom's point applies.

But as George says, once you move beyond what you are learning or doing for your own enjoyment (and possibly sharing with/boring your friends) into actually acting as a performer -- when you begin to take the hobby of *performing* magic seriously -- I don't see much of a path to prepare those who are committed. Based on what they have learned (which is often little more than mechanics or even worse, secrets), they really do start to believe they are magicians in the same sense that professionals (in the descriptive sense) are.

I say "they," but there may be some who think I belong in that category.

Oh there’s plenty of resources out there nowadays to become much more than just a hobbyist. It’s not the lack of knowledge being available, it’s the fear of asking for it, holding most back.

Tom

Thanks, Tom. Could you provide some examples?

Tom - fear of what?

Google would say, and I would agree, “Becoming a magician is a journey that requires a combination of learning fundamental techniques from resources like books, online courses, and video tutorials, and developing performance skills through practice, community involvement in clubs and conventions, and gaining live audience experience.”

I would add that if you have a show ready, and a spefic question then why not just ASK right here. Sure, you may, (and most likely will) get different opinions but a big part of running a business is weighing your ‘options’ and deciding what fits YOU the best. Rarely in business is there a one answer solution to a problem like some may want you to believe.

Most magicians start small and grow their way into it. And most stay part-time because being the boss and calling all the shots is not always an easy fun job. Self-employment is not for everybody and especially when it’s your sole source of income. It can be scary, and it can be hard work

A Full-Time Magic business is a lot like the ole saying about the sales business,

<b>"it’s the easiest low-paying job, or the hardest high-paying job you will ever have."</b>

Tom

George, many hate to ask because they think asking makes you look weak or you may be judged the wrong way

And many don’t like a business that involves selling because they see it as ‘asking’ others for something.

Tom

Tom, that's a non-answer if I've ever read one. You said that there were plenty of resources available to guide hobbyists into becoming performing magicians. I just don't see it. If the path is that clear for beginners, it should be trivial for you to provide a handful of examples. I'm not even sure there is a clear path to the Magic Cafe, for those who don't know where to look (or even that they need to look).

If a beginner has to search through thousands of Google hits and guess which ones are reliable... well, that's the problem in a nutshell.

LOL.

I’ll take the internet over the small-town yellow pages any day.

It's not like there are millions of people out there wanting to become a magician. Most are satisfied with being a spectator or an amateur/hobbyist at most. And that saying ‘when the student is ready the teacher will appear’ holds true for magic too.

Tom

Like everything here Tom is just full of small town opinions, theories, and himself. No examples given and if they were they'd just be opinions. The only thing Tom is right about in his opinion is that magic, like becoming most types of live entertainers, is gone. Today they grow up wanting to be gamers, influencers, and social media stars, not live entertainers.

Gone are the days of kids and teens wanting to grow up to become a magician, comedian, clown, puppeteer, DJ, Juggler, etc. We wanted to become these things because we were raised on these types of performers all around us...they were looked up to and well-respected...and they were everywhere - on television, at local festivals, community events, fairs, at our schools, fundraisers, scouting events, local theaters, all the time, regularly. They came to our schools for assemblies (it was so exciting to get out of class to get to go see a magician or other variety performer!) then you were buzzing about it and infatuated for the rest of the week or more.

There were mass-appeal performers to look up to that came into our lives on a daily basis. Today its only guys like David Blaine, and a decade or more ago Criss Angel which while popular with their own niche, were not mass-appeal popular like Blackstone, Henning, and Copperfield. Same for Johhny Carson, Don Rickles, Phyllis Diller, then Seinfeld, Romano, Leno, Roseanne, Tim Allen, Carlin, Pryor, and so many great comedians of the generations.

The internet changed live entertainment and the want, need, desire, and thirst for live entertainment, let alone interest in live performing for a skill, job, and possible career. We all asked and strived for "how" while today it is "why?" In 1982 when I first released the Entertainment Career Directory I had literally (literally) hundreds of schools each year asking me to come to appear at the Career Days. This went on for over a decade.

Youtube, Instagram and TikTok have all replaced seeing live entertainment (with the possible exception of concerts.) The last 2-3 generations have not been raised on live entertainment and seeing and experiencing live entertainment and that is where all of this stuff pertaining to magic had shifted.

It is no longer about "performing" magic it's about being able to know the secrets and the "hows" for look-at-me-purposes and that's about it. No daydreams or fantasies about how cool it would be to do this for a living and make a solid career out of it. Today people look for noncommittal ways to skirt the system, shortcuts, fake-it-til-you-make-it approaches to everything (not performing). It is a generation(s) of instant access and gratification. Gone is the experience of the journey, wanting to learn from the masters and those we looked up to and grew up with. Instead of wanting to be part of that process, today it is "how can se skip the process and just get to the good stuff."

The journey and access to mentors, those we can look up to and learn from, hasn't changed, it is the mindset and approach of the more recent few generations that has changed.

As Tom said they see Youtube and social media as the education. It is not. The first rule of live entertainment is is to perform well, there is a lot more to it than meets the eye. Its not as easy as it looks. Much more behind the scenes that most ever realize. Today, they do not want to hear or see that...they just want their desired results, and they want it NOW, on a silver platter with a huge pretty bow on it, and they want it quickly...and for FREE!

All of this is at the root of all of the talk here. The apprentice system is still here, bold and strong...it's the apprentices and the whole approach and mindset is the thing that is missing.

Mindpro, sad but true.

Even though it's a trend I'm familiar with, I know that it's something you are confronted with every day. It's easy for me to forget that this is not just a problematic trend with magic, but with entertainment and performance in general.

As you often point out, entertainment is not like other businesses (though I believe they have more in common than you do). And magic is a unique form of entertainment because in spite of everything it is still built on secrets. And every person who knows a particular secret makes it less valuable.

I can become a singer by listening to good singers. But I can't become a magician by watching good magicians; I still need the secrets. Once I have the secrets, though, I can't stop there; I still need to learn how to be a magician.

(Whether you can become a good singer without training may depend on natural talent, etc., but it is possible.)

While we’re on the subject of mentors, one on one coaching, etc, maybe it would be good to talk a little about how to a choose a mentor, coach, or both. This is my 'opinion' that I’ve shared with others in the past and it can apply to magic or any other field for that matter.

The first rule for choosing is to look inward at yourself and see exactly what it is you think you need. This foundational step requires honest self-assessment and clarity about your goals, gaps, and growth areas. Ask yourself these critical questions: What specific skills or knowledge do I want to develop? What challenges am I currently facing that I can't solve alone? Am I looking for tactical guidance, strategic thinking, emotional support, or accountability? What's my learning style, and how do I receive feedback best? What are my non-negotiables in terms of communication style and values? Understanding your needs isn't just about identifying what you lack—it's about recognizing your strengths, your preferred learning methods, and the type of relationship that will energize rather than drain you.

Next, and this is super important, look closely at the person you're thinking about partnering with. How do they treat others? How do they handle conflict, pressure, and setbacks? Character reveals itself in the small moments—watch how they interact with others, how they speak about former clients or colleagues, and whether they practice what they preach. Are they hiding behind a different name? Observe their integrity in action. Do they honor commitments? Are they punctual and prepared? Do they give credit where it's due? A mentor or coach with questionable character will ultimately undermine your growth, regardless of their expertise. Pay attention to their communication style. Are they a good listener, or do they dominate conversations? If they're not a good listener, move on and find someone else. Do they ask thoughtful questions that make you think, or do they simply dispense advice? The best mentors and coaches create space for your own insights to emerge while providing guidance when needed.

While character matters most, competence is essential too. Examine their track record not just in their field, but specifically in developing others. Have they successfully mentored or coached people with similar challenges to yours? Can they provide concrete examples of how they've helped others grow? Be wary of those who only talk about their own achievements. The skills that make someone successful in their career don't automatically translate to being an effective mentor or coach. Look for evidence of their ability to teach, guide, and develop others. Do they have ‘real’ references they’re willing to share with you. The right mentor or coach is invested in your success, not in being seen as the hero of your story. They should be comfortable with your eventual independence and celebrate when you no longer need their guidance as intensively. Be cautious of mentors or coaches who seem to need you to remain dependent on them, who take excessive credit for your achievements, or who become defensive when you question their advice. The relationship should empower you to think more clearly and act more confidently on your own.


If you choose to go that path, choosing a mentor or coach is one of the most important decisions you can make for your personal and professional development. Take the time to get it right. The wrong choice can set you back months or years, while the right partnership can accelerate your growth in ways you never imagined. Remember that this is ultimately about creating a relationship that serves your highest potential. Trust your instincts, do your due diligence, and don't settle for someone who doesn't meet your standards simply because they're available or willing.

With that said, I still say becoming a magician is not rocket science. Most can make it with books, videos, and ‘asking’ others for help. Many and I mean the majority of the working magicians did it themselves by gathering info from here and there, ‘asking’ all those that they could reach out to for advice. Magicians are the most helpful group of people there are, that is if you’re hanging out with the right crowd, if not, find the helpful ones because I know for a fact they are out there.

Tom