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AutarchicFlux Special user 797 Posts 
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Given this has been universally praised by the professionals who have already seen the method(s,) including Christian Grace, who was not paid to promote it through his Gumroad channels but did anyway, I think the grumbling by people here on the Cafe is just the Cafe being what it always has been, which is a black hole of negativity and ridiculousness from amateurs who have no idea what they're talking about.
I look forward to learning. |
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ArtIn Inner circle 2057 Posts
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On Jan 25, 2026, AutarchicFlux wrote: I would be interested to hear your thoughts about it and read your review. |
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EZrhythm Inner circle Only three EZ payments for a PDF of my 2111 Posts
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On Jan 24, 2026, The Duster wrote: You can recognize it on his main sales page. Magic evolves. Look at the massive amount of social media performances able to be viewed. Notice the increasing number of magic apps and similar. Magic marketing will evolve too. This appears to be one of the possible methods that we will see more of in the future. He is benefiting from some very considerate assistance marketing this effect. I will bet more producers of effects will take this direction.
How many magicians does it take to change a lightbulb? Regardless, for magicians darkness is a time for d'lite.
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Pete Legend Inner circle Ireland 1440 Posts
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Lads, would I be right in saying that some aren't fans of the marketing tactics?
He can market the product however he likes. He can sell the product for how much he likes. It's his product. If the product is misleading (which judging my the reviews it is definitely not) then he will ultimately pay the price. Everyone should be allowed to express their thoughts (obviously), both positive and negative but some of you are flogging a dead horse. By the way, anyone with a brain can see some of the backhanded compliments sprinkled throughout. Personally, I think it's **** form. If you don't like what he is putting out (both in terms of marketing and product) then don't buy it. I don't see the point coming back in and expressing the same view over and over. As my Irish teacher used to say, "take a chill pill boy". In my opinion (just my opinion now, so don't cry or hate me), at this stage everyone knows your opinions, you have made them ABUNDANTLY clear, so maybe you'd be better off moving on and putting your energy elsewhere. If you want, only if you want, we can all hug it out and hold hands after. ** Please note** Hug and hand holding offer valid only until March 1st. After said time period, this drops to slap of the arse. |
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AutarchicFlux Special user 797 Posts
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Hear, hear.
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martydoesmagic Inner circle Essex, UK 2187 Posts
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While I agree we shouldn't flog a dead horse, and I also think Johannes is hardly a bad actor in this situation, he's naively adopted a marketing playbook that I believe magicians (especially hobbyists) should push back against. Even just a few years ago, the primary users of this pricing psychology were mentalists who historically charged exorbitant amounts for their dressed-up magic tricks, ostensibly to keep secrets from the unwashed masses.
So these approaches are hardly new. However, the wholesale adoption of artificial scarcity (the "early bird" deadline), price anchoring (the crossed-out $125 "full price" and comparisons to "$175 products"), value stacking (claiming $275 total value for a $74.95 product), and urgency tactics (limited-time offers with countdown timers) by magic creators and companies alike represents a worrying trend that's harmful to the largely hobbyist consumers who keep the magic industry afloat. Specific tactics at work here:
While I'll concede that some marketing/promotion is required to secure a return on your investment, I hate this kind of aggressive marketing; it treats the consumer not as a person but as a sucker to be psychologically manipulated. A resource to be exploited. It is important that we call it out for what it is: conversion rate optimisation borrowed from a dirty digital marketing playbook designed to maximise sales by minimising rational decision-making. If you can cut through all this BS and still want the product at the price offered, then go for it. I have a strong feeling that this will be a good product (pricing issues aside). But next time Johannes releases a product, I'd like to see less of this disrespectful marketing hype. Marty |
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Pete Legend Inner circle Ireland 1440 Posts
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Marty, I reckon you're a good, intelligent soul. I enjoy your posts. You're clearly passionate about the topic, perhaps what you have posted will ignite a change that you'd like to see, but at some point I believe (in my opinion, just my opinion) you have to be willing to say your piece and let it go. It takes a strong character to call something out, something that you feel is wrong, so whether I agree with you or not I still respect your capacity to express yourself openly. Great trait. I do also believe though, at this point it's becoming unfair to Johannes. You said it yourself, he is not a bad actor and I'm sure by this stage he has heard you loud and clear.
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magicmind Inner circle South 3728 Posts
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On Jan 24, 2026, AutarchicFlux wrote: My opinion was not a black hole of negativity nor am I an amateur. I am just money conscious and tired of the rereleases with additional material at high prices. Especially for one “casual” performance effect. I appreciate your opinion, but feel it was a broad stroke. I tend to stay away from the drama here and use this as a resource. I look forward to your real world review of this $90+ effect that is on preorder to be delivered late Feb 2026. I’m surprised there is not grumbling about this being a pre-order from the noise on these green pages, yet. |
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magicmind Inner circle South 3728 Posts
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On Jan 25, 2026, martydoesmagic wrote: 100% this! I feel that most here feel this way, only to expressing it in grumbling, but clearly laid out ideas above are the consensus. Well stated Marty!! |
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martydoesmagic Inner circle Essex, UK 2187 Posts
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On Jan 25, 2026, Pete Legend wrote: Oh, I agree. I have three young kids and detest whinging! I'm not entirely sure that magic producers do listen, though, even when you point it out to them. I've had similar experiences with magicians I greatly admire, who seem to think it is acceptable to email me several times a week with time-urgent sales pitches. I'd also argue that anything that bumps this topic back to the top of the forum is good for Johannes and his new product's sales figures, so I don't feel bad about the situation. 
But, yeah, I hear what you're saying. The point has been made loud and clear and doesn't need repeating ad infinitum! |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 22682 Posts
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By the way it is a discussion board. If someone wants to discuss with more than one post that is allowed. Who is anyone to limit how much discussion others have? If you think it’s too much don’t read. Don’t stop people from posting.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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PatrickGregoire Inner circle 2893 Posts
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Just because we don't like how something makes us feel, it doesn't necessarily make it wrong.
Something is not necessarily disrespectful just because it makes us feel disrespected. Yes, the sales page is a classic "Click Funnels" sales page, so what? Johannes believes in his product. He's selling his product with confidence. Nobody is forcing anyone to buy it. There is not a single tactic he can use that will force someone into buying it. Quote:
On Jan 25, 2026, martydoesmagic wrote: - Clearly, people who think this is too expensive don't feel it's a bargain, so how exactly is he tricking people into buying his product with this tactic? He's just offering a discount. And even if most sales come in from pre-sales, so what? - You're trying to say that an hour of Johannes' time (times the amount of people who buy this, probably a LOT of people) costs nothing to provide?! He will be burning through HOURS of his precious time helping people because they purchased his product... - "Celebrity endorsements and cherry-picked testimonials" - That's just sales, and I personally doubt there was anyone he showed this to that didn't think it was great. - The superlatives are backed up by his guarantee; If it turns out not to be the best (in your subjective opinion), he'll give you your money back... He's speaking from confidence, not from trying to squeeze as many sales as possible with a bad product. - "imagined alternatives" - What?! There are many other products available in this plot (to name a few that I personally know of: Osmosis, Sinful, CTC Project, Cantastic 2.0), Johannes probably knows them all - because he's been working on this plot for I think 12 or so years - and he believes his is the best version. And again, he offers a guarantee to anyone who buys it and disagrees. All of this whining (from everyone, not singling out Marty) boils down to "It's not fair". Why does it have to be? We want his product at our desired price, with our desired marketing, but that's not how it works. The reality is "Darn, that's outside of what I can offer/am willing to pay. I suppose if I really want it, I'll have to either save up for it or not get it." How is that any different from anything else in life we can't afford/refuse to pay for? There's nothing wrong with someone letting Johannes know that they dislike the marketing tactics he chose to use - but to crucify him for using them, and to keep insulting his approach over and over again publicly, is just incredibly rude. He's been very respectful and open to listening to opinions and suggestions on his marketing approach, just PM him about it at this point. ------------------------- Quote:
On Jan 25, 2026, martydoesmagic wrote: You're talking as if magic producers *have* to change things just because we ask them to... Maybe they *are* listening but just don't agree with our opinions and suggestions. What's wrong with emailing a list several times a week with time-urgent sales pitches? If someone doesn't want to buy, they can just choose not to buy, or unsubscribe if they find it annoying or off-putting. I don't disagree that it can feel icky, but they're running a business and I can respect that. I make my own choices. |
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samdan Special user 620 Posts
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I am not that interested in the product but may buy it to just support this guy. He is getting wildly bullied on here for no reason. If you are not interested, do not buy it and move on. Why get so angry about his marketing? Who cares.
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martydoesmagic Inner circle Essex, UK 2187 Posts
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Patrick, I was just clearly identifying the (well-known) marketing tactics being used here for those unfamiliar with them. It doesn't matter if you feel that the use of these things is well-justified by the quality of the product; I still find this approach disrespectful for reasons I've already mentioned in this thread. Does this discussion constitute bullying? I don't think so. And I'm certainly not angry about it. But I do think it is time consumers are more vocal about these things. Isn't this the type of feedback you might expect when posting to a forum like this?
I'm being honest about how I feel about this product and the way it is being sold, much in the same way Johannes has been open and honest about how he feels about his trick. I'm supportive of the project (I pre-ordered it), but I'm not supportive of the marketing tactics being used. Does Johannes have to use these techniques to sell his product? Absolutely not. I'd recommend he look into Seth Godin's concept of Permission Marketing. Quote:
Permission marketing is the privilege (not the right) of delivering anticipated, personal and relevant messages to people who actually want to get them. Better, more respectful solutions are out there for any magic creators and companies listening. Marty P.S. Here's the first four chapters of Seth's book, for those interested enough to read them. |
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davidpaul$ Inner circle Georgetown, South Carolina 3400 Posts
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On Jan 25, 2026, samdan wrote: What is your definition of bullied? Is Mr.Mengel vulnerable? He initiated this thread and magicians are commenting and yes criticism is being voiced. So... Like Danny Doyle stated above, that what a forum is for. The moderators here will delete comments if they feel the need.... Sheeeesh all this for a soda can and a tab.
Guilt will betray you before technique betrays you!
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 22682 Posts
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A discussion of viewpoints is not bullying. It is a discussion.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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CardGuyMike Inner circle 1069 Posts
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I am on record somewhere in this thread about finding the marketing distasteful as well. However, Johannes has stated that he has never done this before and used some online resources to learn how to market his product. I have to wonder -- has Johannes naively gone a bit overboard with the psychological warfare? How much of it was applied with knowing intention? Only each of you can answer those questions for yourselves. I hope for his next product he learns from this and tones it down a bit. We shall see.
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GReaper New user 65 Posts
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Sorry if this has been answered before, but there is a lot of posts to trawl to check for sure…
For an owner of the original release of Breakthrough, some years back, how much crossover is there and how much is brand new material? Is this still value for money if the original is owned?
Grim Reaper
Top Childrens Entertaner (CRB checked) (AKA Bob Stevens) |
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MadisonH Inner circle 1984 Posts
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On Jan 25, 2026, GReaper wrote: The old version only accounts for one version of the about 15 he teaches. Madison |
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PatrickGregoire Inner circle 2893 Posts
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On Jan 25, 2026, martydoesmagic wrote: Quote:
On Jan 25, 2026, PatrickGregoire wrote: Quote:
On Jan 25, 2026, martydoesmagic wrote: I don't think so either. I never mentioned bullying. I did mention that a handful of people have been rude. Quote:
On Jan 25, 2026, martydoesmagic wrote: That's fair, we're all allowed to have opinions, we're all allowed to share them - but so many people came on here and just shat all over the marketing in a disrespectful manner. Quote:
On Jan 25, 2026, martydoesmagic wrote: In a respectful manner, sure. Some people have been coming across as making demands, being arrogant, and rude. Quote:
On Jan 25, 2026, martydoesmagic wrote: I'm very sorry, I genuinely wasn't aware that you were held against your will, forced to visit his sales page, and consume all of its content. Are you ok? On a serious note, permission-based marketing is not relevant to this context. This is a sales page; you visited it, you read it, you watched the video, whatever you did - you chose to do. Permission-based marketing is about not spamming people with stuff they didn't ask for and that is irrelevant to them. It's about getting them to ask you to market to them. Johannes is marketing a magic product and he did it in a certain way. I'm not a fan of it either, but I don't feel disrespected by it. |
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Posted: Jan 25, 2026 01:08 am 
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