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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 23091 Posts 
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Why are you so against discussion?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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PatrickGregoire Inner circle 3000 Posts
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Quote:
On Jan 26, 2026, Dannydoyle wrote: Please quote me on where I said such a thing. You're either making incorrect assumptions or you didn't actually listen to what I had to say. |
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AutarchicFlux Special user 838 Posts
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On Jan 26, 2026, Dannydoyle wrote: How many times are you going to post literally the exact same thing while adding absolutely no value? We DO want discussion, which is why you need to be quiet and let people with something to say do just that. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 23091 Posts
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On Jan 26, 2026, AutarchicFlux wrote: Oh so now it is be quiet and let others, who agree and love the product I can only assume, talk? Seems to me that telling others to sit down and be quiet is more bullying than anything. And yea if wondering why a discussion on a discussion board is so bad I guess I am guilty of saying the same thing. But going with the prevailing theory how exactly does anything anyone posts stop anyone else from posting what they want?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 23091 Posts
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On Jan 25, 2026, Pete Legend wrote: You may as well have started that sentence with the part about the flogging a dead horse and skipped everything before the word but. Well I guess this qualifies as you not wanting anyone discussing. If they want to flog a dead horse let them do it. So did that quote qualify for you? As you say it is just your opinion, and I indeed do not hate you for it. This is where I got the idea that discussion seemed to vex you in some way.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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countrymaven Inner circle 1758 Posts
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I am glad I got the original Breakthrough by Mengel. It was available recently on theory 11, but was taken off.
Actually for 30 bucks, I like it. I would not pay more for it. This "upgrade" is nothing more than a money grab. Take the earlier and very good version off, and decide to charge much much more. This does not have the version where the spectator does it, but it is kind of obvious where you would intervene and what move you would use to secretly ditch the tab. Hey if you want to spend 1000 on this good for u. But you missed out big time. The original download has all you need. This is just a blatant money grab. They saw they could get good quotes and reprice it. I don't like seeing magicians deliberately trying to take advantage of other magicians, but you all seem to like it. another one born every minute, said Barnum. I am thinking of developing a version with a 16th variation where a big momma sits on the tab on the can, and the can is crushed and it goes through. hehe. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 23091 Posts
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To be fair Barnum never actually said that.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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martydoesmagic Inner circle Essex, UK 2285 Posts
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Patrick, my comment about bullying was in reference to Samdan's comments, not yours. Apologies for the confusion.
Sure, not everything in Seth's book is relevant to this situation. However, a core element of Permission Marketing is treating customers as friends and with respect, things I feel these cheap marketing tactics preclude. Marty |
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martydoesmagic Inner circle Essex, UK 2285 Posts
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A few additions, at the risk of sounding like a broken record. I like Johannes, I like this product, and if you enjoy the plot, then I think you should buy it. The only thing I dislike is the marketing tactics used. I assume that he's picked up these bad habits from unqualified online tutorials on marketing and sales (something that's understandable and forgivable).
Sometimes, the sales platforms people use encourage this type of approach (it looks like he's using Systeme, which does have sales-funnel functionality). I've seen the same thing with ThriveCart; it actively encourages FOMO marketing. Now, there's nothing inherently wrong with these software tools, so long as they're used properly. But they're also part of the problem we're discussing here. In case anyone wonders why I mentioned Permission Marketing, Johannes is using a classic form of it here in this thread (turning strangers into friends, and friends into customers). These ideas have been around for more than a quarter of a century and offer a far better way to market magic tricks to magicians. This more considerate approach is at odds with his sales page; this is the fundamental issue with how this project is being pushed. It explains why there’s been so much discussion of the sales tactics used and so little on the product itself. I commend his friendly, open, and honest approach on this thread; hell, he won me over, and that isn't an easy task! Still, he’s using the marketing techniques of spammers and fraudsters, which are incompatible with Permission Marketing (which involves much more than not spamming people and getting permission). I don't mention these things to prove I know more about marketing than Johannes or anyone else here (I'm certainly no expert). However, given that this is his first independent project, I'm offering this feedback and advice to help him. Marty |
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1tepa1 Inner circle 1390 Posts
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Putting the marketing tactics aside, what I personally don't like is how the trailer is cut to appear that the presentation allows the spectator to put the tab on the bottom of the can and the put their hand on top of it and shake it. For a moment when I watched the trailer I was thinking "that is actually really good, I have no idea how that can be done" and then I remembered that I am watching a magic trick trailer and of course there must be a portion that is cut off from the middle. If there isn't, and you can actually do that, then I am seriously impressed by the effect.
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mroek Regular user 195 Posts
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On Jan 26, 2026, 1tepa1 wrote: There is obviously something cut out there, because otherwise it would be real magic. I have no doubts that the methods are great, and that spectators are fooled (and impressed), but it is somewhat worrying that the methods are apparently easy to figure out if you could actually see the uncut version. If uncut performances starts to pop up after people have received the trick, and it is indeed easy enough to spot (and "learn") the methods from close inspection of the video, that would certainly make buyers feel like the value of their purchase has been somewhat reduced. This is not a criticism of Johannes, it just goes to show how difficult it is to market a trick like this. I am still tempted to buy, but as an amateur that performs only once in a blue moon, I think it is fairly expensive (not saying it isn't worth it, just that it is quite a bit of money). |
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PatrickGregoire Inner circle 3000 Posts
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On Jan 26, 2026, countrymaven wrote: You could be right, you could be wrong. This is one example of what I was referencing. Just rude speculation for no reason. Projecting nefarious intentions onto someone when you have no proof of any nefarious intentions. Again, you could be right. But you're likely wrong. I sure hope you are. The project might be way better than the original. You have no idea if he's just trying to rip people off. Give the man a chance and we'll see. |
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Pete Legend Inner circle Ireland 1440 Posts
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Aaaaannd the never ending loop continues
Lads, life is way too short. Discuss whatever you want. Maybe at some stage though, you have to ask, is what I'm saying adding any real value to the discussion? If you change the words, but say the same thing, is that enhancing the spread of knowledge? Debate happens when minds can be changed, I'm wrong loads of times. I love being wrong, it means I've learnt something new. Unfortunately, some here just double talk, suffer from last word syndrome, don't have the capacity/want for any sort of self-reflection. It happens here over and over again. I'm honestly in awe with how some of you guys can do it. Is it not exhausting? Maybe this is an opportunity for all of us to look inwards and ponder on how can we make this place thrive, how we can make it fun for ourselves and others? Honestly lads, is this the best we can do? Is anyone actually having fun? Now, just do me a favour, humour me, I could be talking a bucket load of bo**ocks, but just imagine for a second that something I said made a tiny amount of sense. My apologies to Johannes, creativity should be celebrated. Your work deserves more than what you received here. I hope you sell a shed load of product (It looks class!!), I hope all your hard work pays off. I hope everyone who invests will be super happy and spread wonder and craic around the globe. I've nothing more to add so won't be posting again. Enjoy and best of luck! |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 23091 Posts
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You keep responding and yet everyone else is the problem. It sure seems like you want to limit debate to what you deem is the proper number of posts.
Problem is you don’t get to do that. Plus you don’t get to participate and blame others. It kind of reminds me that I watched my dog chase his tail for 10 minutes. It occurred to me dogs are easily entertained, until it also occurred to me that I had just watched my dog chase his tail for 10 minutes. Maybe some self introspection about not judging others would be an idea. Certainly if you responded to others less it would cut things down a bit. Last word syndrome and all.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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countrymaven Inner circle 1758 Posts
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NO this new project is just an unnecessary redoing of the original project. Again, I am sure I know how they do the version with the spectator, you just let them shake it and intervene with a display that "shows" the tab is not on top, and you ditch it with one of the versions. Any mentally competent magician could figure it out with the first "Breakthrough by Mendel".
I feel sorry for this obvious con, engineered for mostly a bunch of suckas, so I can guess your bank accounts probably have three figures in them, because you have to spend on scammy upgrade cons like this. The original has the best moves and all the foundational stuff. But they are removing it, because they don't want to be caught for this greedy money grab, which is not better than the first. Again, it is obvious they are removing the evidence, by removing the original. But it is still available. Then they got some very good quotes along the way, and improvised a version with the spectator (which is edited) which uses one of the foundational moves on the original. I just don't like seeing greed unleashed, in the name of "helping magicians". Once again, you can have a great methods, but if the original effect is lame and not visual, yes, like clinking in a soda can. How does this compare with a very good coin through bottle or a great coin through upside down glass on the table? Not visual at all. You could easily do this with coins in the spectators' hands. You want to pay hundreds for clinking can sounds? Go for it. |
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LankyHobo Elite user 476 Posts
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I love magic that explores different senses. The use of sound is always an interesting one and has been employed effectively in other tricks. I'm not sure why if something is not visual then that should be regarded as weaker.
I think for this effect what is also offered is not just that it's in the spectator's hands (if this plays out as described) but also that it seems they get to feel the magic when it happens, as well as hear it. They appear to feel the moment when the tab is actually going through. So they get that extra sensory experience. Which I reckon would be very strong. |
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davidpaul$ Inner circle Georgetown, South Carolina 3400 Posts
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Quote: On Dec 25, 2025, Johannes Mengel wrote:
Guilt will betray you before technique betrays you!
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Nathan Alexander Inner circle 2247 Posts
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On Jan 25, 2026, samdan wrote: I agree with you. Let him market however he wants. As an aside, "I am not that interested in the product" But I totally am now, and therefore "may buy it to just support this guy", May I propose a win-win-win for all three of us at the same time? |
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martydoesmagic Inner circle Essex, UK 2285 Posts
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On Jan 26, 2026, LankyHobo wrote: The audio deception at the core of the method is probably the most innovative aspect of Johannes' trick. Along with some clever coin-magic choreography, the sound sells the penetration effect. As I pre-ordered the updated project, I decided to get a copy of the original DVD release (a modest additional investment given the high cost of the pre-order). The method is pretty much exactly what I expected. It is incredibly well-thought-out and, as far as this particular plot is concerned, I think it provides an elegant and practical solution. In short, it deserves a re-release. Other, more high-profile magicians have done the same with their best material, so I don't see why Johannes shouldn't be able to do the same. Maybe I'm a naive optimist, but I don't think this new incarnation is a money grab. While I still think the price is a little high, I'm looking forward to finding out how the effect has developed over the past ten years or so. I always like having multiple methods at my disposal, as I often end up repeating tricks like this one for the same audience. I can also see the benefit of performing this as a piece of magic with a classic three-act structure. Once the project is available next month, I'll write a full review on my blog. Marty |
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scott0819 Inner circle Canada 1095 Posts
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On Jan 25, 2026, MadisonH wrote: THANK YOU, for clarifying this in your review and the post above. I was really scratching my head wondering why the original Breakthrough had pretty lukewarm reviews with some pros actively disliking it and yet somehow all the big names are endorsing this new version 12 years later even though the core method seems to be the same. It just didn’t make sense to me (I was also a lukewarm review). Obviously, Johannes has brought enough new work and methods to this to win over quite a few people this time. |
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Posted: Jan 26, 2026 02:22 am 
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