A few years ago a friend of ours, a professional magician, was asked what type of magic he does, and he replied that he does a period-style act for adults. The response was immediate: was that because he used blue material? He explained that this wasn't the case at all, but I've seen this response several times over the years, including back when I was doing my cards-and-doves act.

So here's a question for those of you who perform regularly for adults (or have different acts for adults and for kids), and get asked this question: how do you respond to it?

I have never once had the question posed to me.

I think it comes to how you acquire prospects. You can squash all those issues with proper positioning.

That's a good question actually. I tend to get that question a little more often in reverse. My marketing is more immediately targeting adults and formal events, so some folks will ask if I perform for kids. This actually happened a few days ago, I just sent a video of performing at a kid's event and that solved the issue immediately.

To the question of how you answer that question, it helps to word it well. Magic for adults sounds considerably better than adult magic. Which sounds an awful lot like "adult entertainment".

If someone does ask if that means blue, answer whatever the truth is. If it's appropriate for all ages say "no, nothing like that. All ages can enjoy, it's just kids aren't allowed in the venue". Or "the show's appropriate for anyone 18 or older". Whatever the truth is will usually be the best answer in that situation.

In fact it someone is asking questions after the pitch, the pitch needs work.

You need to be in control of the narrative from first contact. From the first time they see or hear Scott you the narrative must be created.

Magicians get into trouble trying to be everything to everybody. They are so desperate for work and want to just take all the jobs that the message of who they are and what they provide gets mixed up.

Not talking about the pitch here. Just in social informal situations where "what do you do" comes up and the first reaction is to ask if you use blue material.

Certainly doing a pitch would be different. And I was asking about how to respond if it does come up.

George,

I think saying you have a “Family Show for All Ages” puts most at ease.

When the general public hears the words "magic show," many automatically picture clowns, balloon animals, and noisy birthday parties. To attract families without being pigeonholed into that stereotype, the key is to frame the show as high-quality entertainment that simply happens to be appropriate for everyone.

Much like I always did, I know magicians today that can work a daycare center one day, a birthday party the next, and a company employee party the next day. And they have to do very little adjusting between the shows. True entertaining is about engaging whoever is in the seats; when a show is designed with that universal appeal in mind, it succeeds in any environment.

Tom

I couldn't disagree more.

If you are trying to stay away from kids and separate adults from kids I certainly wouldn't call, say or position it as a Family Show at all. Family show means including kids. That is not what he is seeking.

Since you (George) mentioned a period-style show for adults, I might address and position it as a theme-show (which people often do understand more) or you could go further and state specifically who it is for - "I do a renaissance-based (or whatever type/theme) period theme show for adult audiences/mature audiences."

The other thing that immediately comes to mind is how you are positioning and branding your promotional materials. This can often say it is for adults only without having it a actually say it. This is parlayed on your website, on your promotional materials, your demo video, photos, reviews/testimonials, etc. Having a testimonial or two or a photo caption that says something along the lines of "It was great clean fun magic for adults who love and grew up with magic..." or "It was great to see and enjoy a show for grown-ups that still love magic..."

Again no mention, inclusion of, or photos of kids at all.

This can also carry through to your positioning liner as well.

I agree with all this, and thank you. But I wasn't asking how to avoid the question -- I was asking how you would address it if it does come up. Maybe I wasn't clear enough. I'm not planning to do a show, so I don't have to position it or advertise it.

This happened years ago at a party, and the conversation went something like this:

Guest: "What do you do? Do you work with George or Donna?"

My friend: "No, I don't. I'm a magician."

Guest: "Oh, do you do birthday parties?"

My friend: "No, I do a period show for adults in San Francisco." (Something like that -- I don't remember exactly)

Guest: "Oh, is that because you use blue material?" (I am not making this up)

My friend: (long explanation because the guest was already assuming blue material)

Granted maybe the guest was one-in-a-million, but the question did come up.

Based on the above conversation I think things go south in the line where you said "I'm a magician." This is vague and subject to interpretation. If your answer was, for example, "I am a corporate magician" or "I am a corporate magician, I do performances and presentations for company and corporate events throughout the San Francisco area."

This avoids the kids issue all together.

I think this is what Danny was referring to with positioning and pitch.

Yeah, that might have worked. Again, I don't remember exactly what my friend said.

BTW, that was Walt Anthony, who passed away a couple of years ago.

But live and learn. I'll keep that in mind next time someone asks me what I do and say something besides "I'm a theatrical designer," 'cuz invariably they assume I teach at a high school. You should see some of the deer-in-the-headlight looks I get when I patiently explain that I don't.

George,

I too read it wrong, sorry bout that, and no you wouldn’t want to say it was for all ages if it weren’t.

When you think about it oh, it can be confusing to some in the public if you're not Harry Potter, Copperfield, or you don’t do birthday shows.

Tom

I really liked Walt and miss his contributions here in Tricky Business. To continue on with this topic, I was reminded of another magician that had a similar problem and asked me about how to address this (among other things) and change the perspective of what others may have on their own accord to what he wanted and better positions him. His name was Tajrung. This is one of the threads here in Tricky Business that receive the most comments, feedback, and thanks for from over my years here. It seems to have really helped so many, in so many ways, including getting clarity.

The first page sets up the thread. In the third page I start addressing his concerns one at a time. I feel this is a great, informative read. It is also a progressive thread that really covers so much about being a performer, and the running of an entertainment business behind our performing. A great deal of it is creating the positioning and language to use when describing ourselves - I call it an Elevator Description and provide the detailed formula for doing so. Check it out of you get a chance...

https://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/view......&start=0

I have said this for a LONG time now and I feel like Mrs. O'leary's Cow yelling FIRE FIRE and nobody paying attention.

The claim "I am a magician" is one of the STUPIDEST claims an adult human being can make to a person over the age of 12. Just think how that sounds. Then you go do some stupid 4 Jacks are detectives trick and it just goes downhill from there.

Even as professionals it is a tough road to hoe. It must be traveled delicately if you want to be taken seriously. You must be in control of responses and questions from the start.

Saying you are a family entertainer of some sort is the absolute WRONG way to handle it. This brings far more questions than it does answers.

Okay, I'm done with this thread.

I asked, specifically, "So here's a question for those of you who perform regularly for adults (or have different acts for adults and for kids), and get asked this question: how do you respond to it?" I even quoted (as far as I can recall) the conversation that brought it up.

I didn't ask how to market yourself, or how to position yourself, or ideas about how to prevent it. I asked how those of you who have been asked this question have responded to it.

If you haven't been asked this question, that's great. That's awesome. You must be doing something right. Fedora's answer was pretty much on track, and thank you.

George what you don’t see is I’m saying it is all the same. Marketing is nothing but answering questions people have.

When I have a conversation with someone I know it will be odd once magician is mentioned. (By the way try being a hypnotist, it’s worse.)

But since it WILL be odd it yes important to be specific. “I do magic in comedy clubs” as opposed toto “I’m a magician”.

Don’t let your description stop at magician as it creates confusion. (A lot like marketing and positioning huh?) Be specific. Don’t let them fill in any gaps. Control the perception of who you are. Don’t let them have to guess, tell them.

Again this dovetails with marketing so I’m sorry that got you angry. I really don’t see what has happened to cause that. Yes if we don’t get that question we might be doing something right. I guess not being asked that question I shouldn’t have answered in sorry.

This is how I do it and most people I know do this as well.

Great points. I think one of the things at play here, and this is a good demonstration of it, is people's (lay people) default mentalities is what we're dealing with here. There have been many threads on the topic of this and the perceptions of magicians that comes with it.

Since the community is doing nothing about this or to change this, we have to do it ourselves if we expect to make a difference, overcome the "default" mindsets and settings people have, and to not have this situation occur.

I think all the things mentioned are at play here. Sure the direct answer George may be seeking is to change how you introduce yourself and not stop at just 'magician." This is something that is both preventative and in your control. Doing this also corrects the faulty default mentality and mindset. I feel some great direct examples were given - "I am a corporate magician...", I do magic in comedy clubs..." But although George seems to have gotten upset by this, I do think it is important to look at the bigger picture to circumvent this from happening at all. It is all about your marketing, positioning, and your Elevator Description and introduction.

If you cannot properly talk about and position yourself and what you do in the mind of new or lay people, you are not really in business. Again, I believe this goes back to many magicians do not see themselves as "in business" or business operators. Again, you have control of this.

Also to Danny's point, yes, try being a hypnotist. Talk about a set of terrible (worse) default perceptions and mentalities! Most are not just misperceptions, but they are accompanied with literal anger, skeptisism, and claims of fraud, the occult, religious objections, and illegalality. There are death threats, some of the most close-mindedness you can imagine, and don't even get me started about trying to perform in the Bible Belt. Some would like to have you hung at he stake! I am dead serious, each of these things have all happened, and this is just the beginning. Imagine having to deal with this at every gig or with every novice, uneducated, person calling to book you. As a starting point in the conversation, they are calling you to get more info on booking a hypnotist, yet they feel it against their own moral values and beliefs while doing so.

I thought of this recently in Fedoras Sitting On The Fence thread. His example is nothing compared to this as a hypnotist. Sure we can help people change and break terrible lifelong habits, find inner-peace with their disruptive selves, but, like people with the wrong perceptions of magicians, they rule and operate from their own place of uninformed, uneducated ignorance. As I said earlier, at this point you have three options - 1. Educate them and change/correct this misperspective, nip it in the budd, 2. Think that it is a bigger problem than you (it is a magic community problem) and accept that is just the way it is, and do nothing, or 3. stop being a performer and entertainment business operator.

George may be upset and I am sorry for that, but I feel this topic and the responses given are helping other here at he same time.

George is right; the core question remains unanswered. You simply cannot control every lay person’s preconceived notion of what a magician does, so 'off-the-wall' questions are inevitable. There is a huge gap between how the public perceives magic and how some magicians perceive themselves. While preventative measures like branding and marketing are useful, they don't help you in the moment when an awkward situation actually arises.

I attempted to answer it with “I think saying you have a “Family Show for All Ages” puts most at ease. That’s how I would answer it but of course if you don’t do that type show, you going to have to go into more detail about what it is you do. One really does need a short prepared answer ready, and I say short because trying to ‘educate’ someone can come off the wrong way. Simple questions deserve simple answers.

Tom

You can’t control preconceived notions of the public? Really? Then why is it that those who have a strategy in place are not asked the clarifying questions and those without one are? Coincidence perhaps? What exactly is branding to you anyhow?

You can and should control that perception. Yes there are always outliers but you don’t deal in those. Get rid of those you don’t have to work to get right and get rid of those who will never get it right and the mass is in the middle. Nobody can possibly believe it will work 100% foot 100% of people. Life is more nuanced.

My approach to all these things is that as opposed to more lifeboats, the Titanic would have benefited more from one less iceberg. So I thought the goal was not to get questioned in the first place as opposed to having a strategy when you do.

I’m sorry George I misunderstood.

One last try: This has nothing to do with branding or hiring a magician. It’s about meeting someone at a party and them wanting to know what you do. NO, you can’t control and expect every person in the world to already know exactly what all magicians do.

Tom

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