In planning for church shows... How do you go about cost of shows for church shows....love offering vs. show costs. Anyone have advice on this topic?
Thanks,
Bryan

Yea Bryan,

There are actually several options on this. You could go for base pay in which you and the client have agreed upon a price in which you would be paid. They can then use the offering to cover part or all your base pay.

There is the mix in which they cover just your expenses (gas,hotel,meals,etc.) and then use the offering to further your ministry.

Or you can use the "Love Offering" in which what ever is in the plates is all you get. Be aware that there are some churches out there that decide to deduct the electricity and the custodial staff out of the offering and give you the rest instead of the entire offering. Make sure you have this in writing of what your arrangements are going to be.

Hope this helps you out and hope you are doing ok in the frying pan up there buddy!!!


All the best!

Magically,

Robert Long
P.S. Get Duane Laflins book called Greater Gospel Magic. He discusses some of the types of charging and such. You may get some tips from it.

Robert,
Thanks for the input... The frying pan a.k.a. wildfires of the west are going great! I will be home very soon! I am reaching the end of this wildfire assignment or tour as we call it!
Magically,
Bryan

I don't do Church shows, so I can only tell you what I know that one other individual does. He is pretty busy and may not post back here for a while, so I will tell it.

He has two rates; ministry and entertainment.

The ministry rate is much less than the entertainment rate, and may - depending on the church, be a Love Offering. It is decided after prayer and a discussion with the church.

The question he asks to determine the rate is; Can I give a clear message of Salvation through Jesus Christ, and then give an Altar Call?

If the Church says no (unless it is becuase they intend do it, and have a team ready) then it is entertainment and the entertainment rate applies.

He is always prayerful before responding to the Church, and has never failed to be abundantly Blessed. It may be a Love offering from a poor inner city Church that far exceeds the expected rate, or it may be the Blessing of seeing a group of individuals come forward in acceptance of Christ as Lord and Saviour! But in many cases it is both!

Be prayerful, and decide. Is it a job, or is it ministry? Ministry doesn't have to be free, (I mean it doesn't all have to come from your own pocket or a personal safrifice on your part) It shouldnt be hard to determine a rate for a job. And with prayer, I imagine that you could come up to a right decision on the ministry rate.

BroDavid

I am not a professional Gospel Magician, so I do my church shows for charity. If I relied on Gospel magic for a living, then I would have to charge...but I don't...so I don't charge.

Ok...now I have to go to my Rambler's Anomynous meeting...

Since God has blessed me with another income I am able to do shows at no cost, provided that I am allowed to freely share a clear message of Salvation. If that is not allowed, I refer them to one of my friends who do magic for a living and allow them to charge for the show.

I use gospel magic as a ministry, not for profit.

Thanks for all the wonderful information. A lot can be gleaned from all that has been shared.

I too do a lot of show with churches - hence my name. I am willing to go to a church for a love offering and have always seen the Lord bless. I have yet to have a church ask me not to share an invitation with my presentation.

On the other hand, I did have a church's pastor call me and ask me about what my "magic" was all about. Seems a comment was made by a disgruntled member about why I would do "magic" in the church. The pastor was away on vacation that particular day. He, fortunately, understood where I was coming from and was supportive.

John
The Gospel Magic Man

Thanks BroDavid for the post I have wrestled many times with this exact situation. Churches have called me and just wanted a show for entertainment purposes for a kick of to a special event. I am never quite sure what to charge, an entertainment fee is a wonderful answer.

And if you all will bear with me here I will share a story with you. Several years ago, my wife and I were suffering some very severe financial problems.

We were called to a church many miles from our home, and after praying we felt the Lord telling us to go. The church had told us that they were a "small poor" church and were only going to be able to provide us with a love offering and that there was no financial means to pay us. We left that night with no money in our pockets and not sure if we had the gas to make the journey and get back home. We left trusting that God would provide.

That "small poor" church provided us with the largest love offering that we have ever received in our ministry. As the Bible says and I paraphrase, If God cares so much about the sparrow how much more does He care about His children? I learned that day to never worry about how much a church was going to pay you, just trust the Lord and he will provide.

Well off to join Astinus at the Ramblers Anomynous meeting!

In Him
Jim

OK, let me add to the mix.

My wife and I are full time entertainers, and our gospel shows are about 10-15% of our work.

We do a professional job, and have been used by churches in a variety of ways: sunday school, outreach events, special speaker at the services, camps, DVBS, Children's Ministry Events, "Birthday for Jesus" Celebrations, etc.

We charge a full fee for our shows. In essence, we feel that the customer is getting the full value of our regular entertainment shows, plus they are getting the free bonus of a message thrown in. If I had to do a show with a special message intertwined for another customer (such as a Magic of Reading Show for a school) then there is an additional fee to have a message show, as opposed to a regular non-message show.

Churches have the option of several different show lengths. We also offer them a choice of a gospel message show or not. Most churches choose to have a gospel message show.

So, again, our style is not to do a love offering or donation. We charge a full and regular fee.

It is both entertainment and ministry in one show. Luke 10:6-8, note especially verse 7B: "...for the worker deserves his wages." (NIV)

- Donald.

I was introduced to Gospel magic about eight months ago and have been growing fruit from the ministry ever since. My first show was at an orphanage in Baja Mexico (Not the best first show, only because there was a translator.) Shortly after that I was hired for two shows a month at a local church. The deal, the church paid for the flash paper etc… and that created a nice routine for me and because the audience was there they hired me for other show’s and that’s when the billing began… first question “How in the world am I going to charge my church money for doing a show” Well the easy answer to the question be BLUNT just say I'm going to need *100.00$ to make ends meat and to be able to do this show. Depending on how good the show is you will most likely get the “envelope” with a amount of donated money to you from the church.

Remember it’s about the chairing of Christ not how much we make; we must be bondservants to Christ.

*Or more depending on church size/performance size…etc

On the one hand, in the absence of a pastor at our church, many speakers have come to our pulpit and we paid them to speak. So being paid to minister is not a bad thing. And the Southern Gospel Quartets have no problem charging a per show fee. But if your are not a missionary or full time christian performer it would be great to work for free and leave the love offering at the church you are working.

I don't think there is only one right way in being paid for church performances.

Duane Laflin has an excellent essay on this in his hardcover book, "Greater Gospel Magic."

I think that BroDavid gives excellent advice in his posting (even though I don't follow it!).

I usually stick to the rule that I will do the show for whatever money the church has the ability to pay. I trust that the Lord will take care of my needs. So far this has worked out well, sometimes fair and sometimes not.

My attitude is this: it's His work and I am using the talent that He gives me, therefore I will do what I must to serve Him. He has blessed me in the Corporate arena so whatever I "donate" is time well spent, after all - isn't it worth it if only one person is listening?

In most cases I say "I am willing to work within the fiancé restraints of ministry opportunities, the suggested fee is XYZ".

I then will discuss this matter with them and come to an agreement which is normally my suggested fee and expenses.
All Ministers and churches understand that this is the way I make a living.

I do think there is a danger in not stating a fee and that is ownership. If you do a show for $50 (even by churches). then you will find that it will be treated and seen to be $50 show. The church will not be prepared, no P.A provided you will find your self in some corner so on.

If you charge say $300 well this is a different matter first leadership will have to pray and discuss it. If they agree you know it is because they believe in what you are providing. The church will pray into it the Church will be prepared. Over all the gospel message will come over clearer and stronger and if all is right it will be followed up. Even if you suggest a fee and the church cant afford it, so you reduce it to what they can. They know that you are giving them a true service. For example $300 show for $50 they will still treat it as a $300 show and will thank you for the reduction and recommend your services.

Mario

That is certainly good advice Mario. I have been burned in the past by exactly what you are making reference to.

Thanks for the great tips guys!