|
|
Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3~4 [Next] | ||||||||||
liormanor Regular user Israel 114 Posts |
Rex
You are great. Your English is much better then mine.. You said exactly what I have in mind (but my mind is in Hebrew) I am tired from all this 4 cion people I am not going to write here any more. good bye all I'll meet you again in another world Lior Manor "all I have to do is just cast a shadow over the last coin" "open your hand, the clean one" "I just snap my fingers and the card jumps to the top" "Let me say the magic word "abracadbra" and the coin vanished from this hand and it is under your glass,you stuipd audience" |
|||||||||
Mike Robbins Elite user Anchorage, Alaska 447 Posts |
Quote:
Even his version of Slydini's "Paper Balls Over the Head" is done with a stooge! (What's the point?) I saw a magician at a comedy club once who did that. He approached me before the show, not knowing I was a magician, and asked me to play along. Good thing I'm a passable actor <g>. Mike
The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool.
Shakespeare |
|||||||||
Glyn Coy New user UK 38 Posts |
Just to echo Quentin - Derren does not use stooges in his lecture video.
You need to look deeper to see what he is doing. He could perform any of those effects on any member of the audience. On his TV shows - who cares what he does? If the end result is that the audience buys into the act, how you get there is of little relevance. |
|||||||||
max88 Loyal user 280 Posts |
Rex, you are so correct on this thing, I fully agree. And thoese people on TV make publica interseting in Magic and hear lots of young people in different forums said they start magic just because after watching Baline's TV special.
|
|||||||||
Xiqual Inner circle Upper left quadrant 4935 Posts |
Quote:
I saw Derren's lecture video recently and it was obvious he was using a stooge almost all the wat through. You are talking about the two effects "Lift" and "Reminiscense" These effects DO NOT use stooges. Actually Reminiscense is based on some work of Docc Hilford and Kenton Knepper. The method is fabulous. Derren Brown Is a genius. The problem with magicians is, we want effects and methods, the audience just wants feelings and emotions. As far as the "status among your peers" goes, that is a bunch of rubbish. Your "peers" and what "they" think, will only hold the creative man back. Just my 33 and a 1/3
Still with the Chinese circus
|
|||||||||
gilbreath76 Loyal user 279 Posts |
Quote:
On 2002-08-10 02:29, liormanor wrote: I hear what you're saying, but I think we are two different mentalities. You are a working professional, while magic is just a hobby to me. So If I was a working professional, then yes, maybe I could careless what my peers think, all I want is to satisfy the people who pays me. But this is just my hobby, and one of my greatest joy is to try and stump my fellow magicians. But don't kid yourself, even if you're a working professional, I think you still care what your fellow magicians think of you. If you have a bad reputation among your peers, it could affect your ability to get jobs....couldn't it? Quote:
On 2002-08-10 09:40, Darmoe wrote: Good post! You put into words my very thoughts. |
|||||||||
Ian Rowland Special user London 889 Posts |
Hi Platt. I've known Derren for a few years, and admire his success greatly. You can place as much weight on my opinion as you wish, but DB is no more and no less than a very, very good mentalist. He's not a genuine psychic, not even close, and doesn't claim to be.
Deception takes many forms. Televised deception takes even more. If many of the things Derren does perplex you, and entertain you, then Derren and his superb team have done their job. No-one on this forum is going to start discussing how DB does what he does, because we don't do that here and it's the wrong focus anyway. But the 'real deal'? Er, in a word, no.
www.ianrowland.com . Working Magic.
|
|||||||||
shadowplay New user 17 Posts |
Derren is definitely not the "real deal", but he is certainly making good money due to all the people who believe that he is. Chat shows, radio shows, they all want to see him because of the lies that they have been exposed to. What am I talking about? Well...
The "Mind Control" shows were well promoted shows that were presented as "psychological education". That is to say, the programme strived to show that it wasn't a magic show, but rather a demonstration of real psychology and the powers of the mind. In a sense this is true, as there were indeed some interesting displays of how psychology can be used to our benefit in everyday life. However, a lot of it was plain trickery. If Derren had just presented this a mental magic show then it would be fair enough, but the fact is that it wasn't. At the start of the first show, Derren performed and explained a simple card trick in order to make the point to the audience that this was not a show of "tricks". He is definitely a good liar. Derren and the entire "Mind Control" team should all be hanged by an invisible thread reel (thanks to Gerry Mccambridge for that line). All the "Mind Control" shows have done is provide the public with a lot of false information, and made Derren a lot of money. Did anyone ever hear of "ethics"? Fair enough, Derren does not claim any deep psychic powers, but he is still a liar. And as for the actual mentalism that was performed on the shows, very little of it was new, original or groundbreaking at all. The "mind control" shows have done nothing for our art, other than perhaps boost the popularity of it slightly. And thanks to them, there is now a whole new breed of wannabe mentalists who all want to know how "Derren reads minds". |
|||||||||
Dr Omni Regular user UK 199 Posts |
Shadowplay:
"All the "Mind Control" shows have done is provide the public with a lot of false information, and made Derren a lot of money. Did anyone ever hear of "ethics"? Fair enough, Derren does not claim any deep psychic powers, but he is still a liar. And as for the actual mentalism that was performed on the shows, very little of it was new, original or groundbreaking at all. The "mind control" shows have done nothing for our art, other than perhaps boost the popularity of it slightly. And thanks to them, there is now a whole new breed of wannabe mentalists who all want to know how "Derren reads minds"." IMHO, every mentalist in the UK (and beyond) ought to be grateful to DB for having made the general public aware of mentalism as a form of entertainment. Just as Paul McKenna re-introduced stage hypnosis to the mass UK audience in the 1990s, so Derren Brown is doing the same for mentalism in the 2000s. A good thing, too. If Derren has made some money out of his success, good luck to him - he deserves it. He is no more a "liar" than an actor who plays Hamlet is a liar when he says on stage that he is a Prince of Denmark. The question is: is the perfomer *convincing to the audience* as a mind-reader (or a Prince of Denmark who wants revenge on his step-father, or whatever). Derren *is* convincing. If other magicians, mentalists or whatever have been inspired by Derren's achievement to draw on their best abilities and creativity to emulate DB's success, then surely that's a superb contribution on DB's part to the quality of magical and mentalist performances. Derren has *repeatedly* encouraged those magicians/mentalists who praise him to find *their own* unique persona and methodology as performers, drawing from *their own* experience, interests, abilities and strengths. The last thing DB wants to see is a bunch of guys dressing up in Victorian costume with goatee beards going round performing poor imitations of what they've seen on the "Mind Control" series. He wants every perfomer to be - and to come across as being - a unqiue individual artist. This is just one of his positive contributions to developing the art of magic. |
|||||||||
shrink Inner circle 2609 Posts |
Quote:
On 2002-08-10 21:42, Xiqual wrote: I know much of what Derren did in the video can be done legit. I.e. the hypnosis etc. I was a stage hypnotist for many years. I don't question that part. I do question the middle section where he ran through mind reading stunt after stunt. Without pre-show work that is impossible. He got a second member of the audience and tried to force two colours direct from psychological subtlties which didn't stick but came up with the "stooge". Now who knows I may be wrong I'ld like to think that there are ways to achieve those effects I would be the first to admit I was wrong just guide me to the relevant publications I'ld gladly purchase them. I have no doubt Derren is a skilled Mentalist and Hypnotist but I do beleive he uses stooges at times. I want to be proved wrong...However in the event that doesn't happen I would like to add that anyone who does use stooges for the odd effect...(and some performers do)if the public find out then everything else you do will be devalued...your status in general will be diminished(my opinion only) I am not attacking Derren he has done more for mentalism than anyone in recent years and I agree he is a Genius. |
|||||||||
Andy Leviss Inner circle NYC 1179 Posts |
Quote:
Now who knows I may be wrong I'ld like to think that there are ways to achieve those effects I would be the first to admit I was wrong just guide me to the relevant publications I'ld gladly purchase them. There may not be a published source; I haven't seen the video in question, so I can't comment. I do want to observe, however, that the lack of a published source doesn't mean that it was necessarily a stooge. It could be original with Derren and or somebody he's associated with.
Note: I have PMs turned off; if you want to reach me, please e-mail [email]Andy.MagicCafe@DucksEcho.com[/email]!
|
|||||||||
brownbomber Regular user Edinburgh 156 Posts |
I haven't seen the video yet, hope to see it later this week but in Mind Control 1 there's certainly at least one example of a stooge being used, so it's not beyond him. Personally, I don't have a problem with that in the overall scheme of things.
As for the general public's reacting adversely to discovering this? I don't think they would care any more than if they were to discover all the other fundamentally simple techniques for all the effects. The Masked Magician hasn't affected David Blaine's popularity - if anything, it's increased. Where Derren Brown excels is simply in his flawless and charismatic presentation (of course a TV production company with a healthy budget helps too...). BB |
|||||||||
Dr Omni Regular user UK 199 Posts |
For the record, and in defense of DB, it is a fact that in the effects demonstrated in "The Derren Brown Lecture" from International Magic, Derren did *not* use either stooges or pre-show work. The two most impressive effects on that video, Lift and Reminiscence, were explained in the first edition of his book "Pure Effect". However, he removed those two effects from the current edition of the book (replacing them with some really funny mock-magic ads, as he regards them as part of his personal repertoire. I have seen a copy of the original edition of "Pure Effect" and know what the method is.
Of course, I won't reveal the methods here, but I think that a person who knows something about the principles of mentalism, and who really absorbs what Derren has to say in his videos and books, and who is willing to use his mind and a bit of creativity and "lateral thinking" can work out how a performer can do those two effects without either stooges or pre-show work. |
|||||||||
Quentin Inner circle 1020 Posts |
Dr Omni is correct.
The full explanation is given in the original first edition of PURE EFFECT, which I have. Here I am only talking about Derren's live show and not any of his TV work. I saw Derren perform all this live at the LLandudno convention a few years ago. Only because I am familiar with the work of Kenton and Docc did I twig much (but not all) of what he was doing. There are no stooges and it is to Derren's great credit that he fools knowledgable magicians and mentalists so badly. |
|||||||||
shrink Inner circle 2609 Posts |
Quote:
Of course, I won't reveal the methods here, but I think that a person who kn0ws something about the principles of mentalism, and who really absorbs what Derren has to say in his videos and books, and who is willing to use his mind and a bit of creativity and "lateral thinking" can work out how a performer can do those two effects without either stooges or pre-show work. I wasn't referring to those effects. I was referring to the mind reading in the middle where the girl was asked to imagine certain scenarios and Derren was reading her mind supposedly. I might be wrong but without pre-show or stooges its impossible. Another thing If he didn't use a stooge then there was a flaw in the presentation in that he used the same person for far to long it looked very much like a stooge. If he can do this without stooges why didn't he use variuos members of the audience it would've made for a livelier and more credible presentation. The one member he did use to force Red and Blue didn't get it. Another thing that looked suspscious to me was the "awakening" of the subject. He gave suggestions that she would not remember anything. In my experience with stage hypnosis that is only possible to do if you achieve a deep level of trance. And the only way to create the appropriate depth is through conditioning. There was no conditioning in the presentation. Again I am only giving my opinion on my experience.......I am always open to the possibility of changing my opinion in line with experience..which is the purpose of these posts and not to knock Derren or anyone..I admire him greatly as a performer |
|||||||||
Fon Regular user London, UK 200 Posts |
Ill say it again Shrink, And ill say it, becuase you seem to be so impressed by it, that you should learn how to do it.
Everything you saw on that lecture, including what you posted above was used with no stooges. Bring me anyone and ill recreate it before your eyes, YOU CAN LEARN THIS! Once you do the whole hypnosis thing will make sence. Good luck, Fon
Always thinking..........?
|
|||||||||
Scott Special user UK 799 Posts |
Hello all,
Quote:
On 2002-08-10 12:45, rex sikes wrote: I was at the Mind Magic Convention in London last year and met Derren Brown and the channel 4 team who produced "Mind Control". They did an open question and answer session. I Think Ian can confirm this as he was also there. Andy Nyman was originally approached to take the lead during the show but is pursuing an acting career and so put the channel 4 producers onto Derren. He fit the bill for exactly and yes was groomed for the show accordingly. However Derren is a very accomplished performer with years of close up general magic and mentalism under his belt. He and Andy Nyman along with the rest of the Mind Control team brainstorm to come up with idea's that once performed will get people talking (it obviously works). Quote:
I saw Derren's lecture video recently and it was obvious he was using a stooge almost all the wat through. The effect was lost because he relied to much on her and it even became a bit boring after a while. The biggest thing was he couldn't use any real members of the audience and that became obvious the lecture progressed. Ok now I am getting irritated. Trying not to give methods away here let me just say something on the subject of stooges. There are the standard stooges, there are instant stooges, and then there are stooges who don't even know it. I have the DB lecture video and I will echo what others have said, everything that Derren does in the video he can do onstage in front of a live audience (without meeting any of them before hand). He may get a few misses during some of the psychological forces but then as has been said many times before the odd miss can stengthen an effect. Watch the video again and then again, think about it logically and you'll see what I mean. Scott |
|||||||||
Glyn Coy New user UK 38 Posts |
Shrink
The effect you are referring to is Reminiscence. As already stated many times, this was published in the first edition of Pure Effect, does not use stooges and can be performed on anyone. Those with knowledge of Kenton's Wonder Words will see this effect as a fine application of those principles. |
|||||||||
E-Leoni Veteran user USA 358 Posts |
Whats the next stage of effects for the mentalist.
Here they are, some of the effects you can look forward to seeing or hearing on the next menatlist show. I will be performing these , so please no stealing....Some of these may sound familiar, but make no mistake,..I do them for real. I will be reading the minds of everyone around the world, and answering them on the radio. I will induce labour pains on non pregnant women around the listening area. (An original Idea of mine) I will heal a blind man. I will heal a person who has leprosy. I will make a man in a wheel chair walk. I will make a man commit suicide on the radio. I will make a woman want to kill Tony Blair, and the Bush miester. I will make a woman that hasn't used her hearing in years,.. to hear once again. I will bring back Jesus Christ from beyond, he will reside in the DJ's body for a few minutes. All this, I will market latter for all of you to do in a book . THe book will have limited explanations, and you must understand the workings of NLP forward and backwards. E-Leoni. |
|||||||||
Alan Munro Inner circle Kentwood, Michigan, USA 5952 Posts |
Quote:
On 2002-08-09 17:21, Philemon wrote: IMHO, a stooge is the only reliable way to go, with that effect. I know that many agree with me on this one. The effect is what matters. If the audience is gullible, it just makes the job easier. |
|||||||||
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » What's the story on Derren Brown? (0 Likes) | ||||||||||
Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3~4 [Next] |
[ Top of Page ] |
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2024 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved. This page was created in 0.06 seconds requiring 5 database queries. |
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic. > Privacy Statement < |