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Harry H Inner circle 1526 Posts 
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I'm new to this board but as an ardent fan of Derren Brown I think there is a lot of jealousy regarding him. International magic must be well chuffed with the publicity though.
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saglaser Loyal user Champaign, IL 248 Posts
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There is, I believe, a vast diffeence between using a stooge and using an instant stooge. Use of the former requires a certain amount of acting skill, but no more than it takes to pull off any other effect. Therefore, it's a method that involves minimum skill in the performance.
Use of an instant stooge, however, is a very different thing. It requires subject management skills. In the worst circumstances, the subject must be influenced to play along and not blow the effect -- either during the performance or after. At best, it requires the sort of management where the subject, let alone the audience, never even realizes that s/he's playing the part of stooge. You can draw the line between "fair" and "not fair" wherever you feel it belongs, but I think the sort of mental manipulation required in using an instant stooge -- particularly in the latter way -- qualifies as serious mentalism and not merely pretending. |
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shrink Inner circle 2609 Posts
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Quote:
On 2002-08-25 00:40, saglaser wrote: I probably agree with what you say and it does take skill. However it's just my opinion that no one from the audience should know how the effects are done. Everyone should leave stunned. There are enough effects around to achieve this. But this only my view. 
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John Bowden New user Ireland 14 Posts
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Met Derren Brown at the MacMillen's International Day last December where he performed impromptu on the Sat night.
I was asked to stand and think of any card I was not a stooge or audience plant and had indeed never spoken with him ever prior to that night. He correctly named the card. Afterwards when we spoke at the bar he told me exactly how he did it and repeated it twicw to show me that it indeed works every time. He showed me because I had earlier purchased his video and it was explained there. It is very obvious from the posts, here, who has and who has not read his books or seen his videos. Some posts are just responding to his TV shows and others are responding from a knowledgeable position. Notice the UK posts that know him and have seen him live, they like me know that he does not use or need stooges. I suppose magicians, some anyway, are like little children who shout at the magician " it went up your sleeve". What do they expect ....that the magician will tell them how they did the effect just to prove them wrong? Derren Brown has published his effects. Are some of you so lazy that you want to be told how everything is done without having to read or view his material? Is jealousy involved here? Irish_Magician |
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Platt Inner circle New York 2015 Posts
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On 2002-08-25 19:39, Irish_Magician wrote: So let me get this straight. You stood up, you thought of a card, he named it. Yeah, I'd like to learn that one. Where can I find it?
Sugar Rush is here! Freakishly visual magic. http://www.plattmagic.com
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Sauron New user England 83 Posts
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On 2002-08-26 00:58, Platt wrote: Not quite as easy as that, obviously. But, as Irish_Magician states in his post, "He showed me because I had earlier purchased his video and it was explained there". You will discover how Derren does this if you deign to purchase his book, Pure Effect or his video, The Devil's Picturebook. The latter is available from Brown's website: http://www.derrenbrown.co.uk |
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Fon Regular user London, UK 200 Posts
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I probably agree with what you say and it does take skill. However it's just my opinion that no one from the audience should know how the effects are done. Everyone should leave stunned. There are enough effects around to achieve this. But this only my view. Watch it again. If you watch the effects, and imagine you are the person in the chair with your eyes closed when theirs are, and you listen to the patter, you will realise that the person does not understand that they have been a stooge. Trust me on this on shrink, once this clicks with you, you will absoultly realise the effort that Derren puts into these effects, Fon
Always thinking..........?
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A l a i n B e ll o n Veteran user 302 Posts
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I don't think that what Derren does qualifies as "instant stooge".
An instant stooge KNOWS he is into the secret of how the effect works. In the discussed effects by Derren Brown, the person is not let into how anything works. The person believes that what he/she is doing is completely legitimate, even if different from what the audience perceives. It may not be astonishing to him/her but definitely is not in collusion with the performer. An instant stooge would be. -Alain Bellon |
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promethee Regular user France 125 Posts
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On 2002-08-26 14:47, Fon wrote: I don't agree with this : even if there is a double meaning in Derren's talk, I think the spectator is aware of what's happening . I'm talking about DB's lecture, not the tv show where we can't know the edited segments ; it's obvious for "the lift", for instance. But I add that I'm aware of the fact that this kind of effects are difficult to create and to perform. And Derren Brown IS a great performer.
La fleur de l'illusion produit le fruit de la realite.
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saglaser Loyal user Champaign, IL 248 Posts
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On 2002-08-25 19:39, Irish_Magician wrote: I assume you're referring to The Invisible Deal. It is indeed a killer effect, but it doesn't work every time. There are ways a subject can throw you. Some you can anticipate and prevent, some you just can't. Still, properly presented, even a close hit looks stunning and will make eyes bug out. Even so, mastering this effect is an ongoing lesson in audience control. It's tougher than you'd seems from just learning how it's done. But it's become my favorite. |
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gimmick1586 Regular user 181 Posts
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After reading some of these post yall made Derren Brown a big dissapointment. And I think I change my mind about getting one of his book if it is filled with crap.
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saglaser Loyal user Champaign, IL 248 Posts
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Derren Brown's books and thinking are far from crap. Much of it is wonderful. It is not, however, easy. A lot of his effects are risky, requiring excellent participant control and the willingness to put yourself in a position where you're likely to fail now and then. But his work is well worth reading.
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gimmick1586 Regular user 181 Posts
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Oh ok, I don't mind putting myself in that postion. Because if you learn how to use that you can use it in other ways to improve other tricks. If you see where I'm coming from. But what do you personally think is his best book. Or if you only have one, what do you think about it.
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explorer New user California 49 Posts
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Derren Brown has said that Absolute Magic is the closest explanation of what he does. Not the tricks per se, but the overall performance.
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Posted: Aug 23, 2002 06:44 pm 
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