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gilbreath76
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I think you've all met this character. The dude that asks, "Can I put it anywhere I want?" when having the card placed back in the deck. He might even try to push the card flush. Let him place it anywhere he wants, then use sleight of hand to control it? Or retort back with something like, "not unless you want to perform the trick!" Your responses will be interesting.
Genio
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Rarely will someone ever be able to put a card back in the deck without leaving a trace.

If you want, just hold the deck really tightly toward the beck so they can only push it in so far. You then finish by pushing it in yourself. Smile
Respectful Classic Magic. Smile
JimMaloney
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There's a simple solution to this: don't let them return it to a squared deck!

You can have them return it to a spread, which allows you to easily get a break under/over their card or control it immediately by culling it. You can also riffle down the side of the deck and have them tell you where to stop. Then, when you cut the cards at that point you can easily get a break. This is also good if you need to card to be return to a specific position -- just do a riffle force.

-Jim
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PMVIVA
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If a dude wanted to loose his card in the deck placing it anywhere he wants, I would perform the Le Paul jog fan control, when the spectator place the card anywhere he wants in a fan, then you close the fan and you have his card jogged,then you take a break above his card and you bring it to the top, I think that's the best solution.

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Garrett Nelson
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I agree that generally the card can be tracked down even after it is put in by the spectator.

It you don't feel confident in this try this:

Spread the cards from hand to hand (or riffle them) and tell them that they can infact put it anywhere they want... "Just say stop anywhere you want."

Cut whenever they say stop and let them put it there.
ninja
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Learn the Diagonal Palm Shift from S.W. Erdnase for a quick solution to this problem.
Uli Weigel
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Another strategy is to always force the card on the spectator. That way, you will always be on the safe side.
ninja
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Quote:
On 2002-08-12 07:56, Uli Weigel wrote:
Another strategy is to always force the card on the spectator. That way, you will always be on the safe side.


There my be times where controlling the card is an absolute must, and simply forcing won't cut it.

Paul LePaul had a good side steal that I believe Randy Wakeman was praising. If you do not have the Card Magic of LePaul, I suggest you learn the diagonal palm shift move, it'll get the job done.
Uli Weigel
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ninja,
you wrote "There my be times where controlling the card is an absolute must, and simply forcing won't cut it."

You're right. The force strategy is just a precaution and you have always an Out, so you can bring the trick to a successful conclusion, no matter what happens.

In case you lose the card somehow, because you made a mistake or the spectator insists on shuffling or putting the card anywhere in the deck, you can still control the card if you know what it is. You may cull the card directly to the top or bottom (you can cover the culling action by a patter line: "Just make sure, you're card is really somewhere in the deck" ). Or you can control it by a shuffle or cut. Of course, the more techniques you have in your arsenal, the better you can handle situations like this.

-Uli
PatUmphrey
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My opinion:

I think the Lepaul control is ideal in this situation over the Diagonal Palm Shift (or any other method that I can think of at the moment) because in the palm shift, the magician is the one flushing (?) the card in the deck. In the LePaul method, the spectator can push the card flush. Also, typically the palm shift is done while the deck is square, as opposed to the jog control, where it is fanned.


Moreover, I think the jog is superior in general, in that no control has taken place yet. You have simply jogged the card and can use it accordingly.

--Pat
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Lance Pierce
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As it happens, Roger Klause has a handling where the card is inserted in the fan by the spectator (LePaul control), the fan is closed (one-handed), and then he moves into a diagonal palm shift from there.



TCR
PatUmphrey
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Interesting- I wasn't aware of that technique (Klause)

I assume though, that the spectator does not flush the card in the fan, but it remains outjogged and then a diagonal palm shift is done?

Pat
“And you’ve got a perfectly logical reason for showing the cards like this” -Harry Lorayne

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gimmick1586
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If she lets you. Sorry I couldn't resist. Smile
TheAmbitiousCard
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A couple techniques I use relatively often that seem to work are these...

If I even suspect that someone might want to be a pain in that regard, when I spread the cards, I say before they get a chance...
"It doesn't matter where you put the card".
This goes against what I would think would work because you would think it draws suspicion. I've found that not to be true in this case.


If they do ask first i'll still use the line above and it works most of the time.

If they insist, then often i'll say..
"Sure. You can even turn it face up and put it in. That way you can keep an eye on it easier." Boy, they love to do that. In reality, that line makes absolutely no sense, but they buy it everytime.

They put it in face up. I square the deck.
I re-spread the deck to their card so they can see where it is exactly.

I turn it over and control it to the top using the tip-over control or bladder control or whatever the thing is called
(If you do know what it is called, please let me know)
leaving an indifferent one sticking out.
That one gets pushed in and we're in business.

This does NOT work if you cannot know their card but i use it in the Ambitious Card constantly.
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Garrett Nelson
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TCR has reminded me of one of the great fair seeming controls.

How could it have slipped my mind?? The first time I used that control (I don't use it for a palm shift, though) I was amazed at how well it worked.
Lance Pierce
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When the spectator inserts the card, she can push it flush, but because you apply pressure at the hub of the fan, it pushes back the cards on either side of it. This condition is fairly well preserved when the fan is closed one-handed. The displaced cards will be sticking out of the front of the deck. By squaring them up with the left forefinger, the selection will end up outjogged from the rear of the deck. That's the LePaul control in a nutshell -- except for the one-handed part...

Best,


TCR
TheAmbitiousCard
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TCR, as I sit here doing this instead of working like I should be, there is a big difference in what the card looks like after it's pushed in. All the cards look so pretty and all lined up, and then there's the selection standing out like a sore thumb. do the spectators not mind that their card is in different alignment than the others?
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Lance Pierce
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I think that they understand that they can't insert a card in a fan without disturbing the fan. If I read the spectator's mind correctly, what matters is that their card is as flush with the deck as they can get it, not that a few other cards get pushed out of alignment.

But what really sells the technique is the casual air with which the fan is closed and squared up (which, of course, jogs the selection out the back).

Cheers,


TCR
TOBIAS
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Thumb fan as big as you can, keep a good tight hold and let them push it in all the way. Next close the fan, snap forward, take over the jog, and control. I say to every person I teach "Force a card every time you have them take a card. It doesn't matter if you need it or not. If you get this pill infront of you, you deal with him. In addition this makes your force strong as hell. Smile

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There is one way to get out of a sticky situation, if all went wrong, and you had no clue what his card was. Ask for the name of his card then find it, then go int o a mexican turnover effect to reveal it.
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