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Steve Knight Elite user Oxford U.K. 479 Posts |
For the last few months I’ve been trying to discover if there is any truth in the suggestion that Uri Geller was not the inventor of the spoon bending effect. The first author to suggest this (to the best of my knowledge) was T.A. Waters who wrote:
"A primary effect of Geller’s has been the bending and breaking of spoons by apparent psychokinesis. It is interesting to note that a similar effect appeared in Abracadabra Magazine some years prior to Geller’s public performances." (The Encyclopedia of Magic and Magicians, p.147). The other reference appears in Randi’s "The Supernatural A-Z", p.138, where he writes: "But it was the newest marvel that he later performed---seeming to bend and break metal objects by mind power---that made all the news. That, it seemed, was original with him, unlike the other rather standard routines. However, in 1968 a conjuring magazine available in Israel published the instructions for a spoon trick that was indistinguishable from the Geller demonstration." Having posted this query to a couple of message boards and asked other magicians privately, I have received the following suggestions: 1) Randi and Waters were, at best, incorrect, at worst, making it up. 2) David Berglas may once have claimed that he was bending spoons before Uri. 3) Uri may have been inspired by a Slydini routine (the old "optical illusion" of pretending to bend a spoon?) from The Genii magazine, January 1961. (Randi, when asked recently for a description of the effect he describes as "indistinguishable" from Uri’s, said he recalled that the spoon returns to it’s unbent condition at the end of the effect, sounds like this old gag, probably a masterpiece performed by Slydini but hardly "indistinguishable" from Geller’s routines.) Would anyone like to add anything to these suggestions or muddy the waters further? (Waters pun not intended) Steve Knight |
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Drewmcadam Inner circle Scotland 1239 Posts |
How old is the effect? Good question. How about 1938? In The Jinx you will find an effect that is, to all intents and purposes, a spoon bend without the spoon. Anneman used GLASS instead.
Rather than cutlery, he used the glass cocktail stirrers that were popular at the time, the gag being that some of them were flawed and would bend if waggled around a bit. (It involved a switch, just in case you were wondering.) That aside, some of the Geller effects were followed up rather speedily and, to my mind rather crudely, as demonstrated in Number 11, Volume 7 (1975) of Magigram magazine. Here, one method of stopping a watch was by way of a massive magnet from an old TV set---a little cumbersome, to say the least. If you’ve never seen one of the old magnets in a TV set, it’s about the size of a Mini Cooper tyre! The spoon and key bending was achieved by, among other methods, a sloping bag hidden under the jacket containing pre-bent cutlery, and at one point turning your back on the spectators. |
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Steve Knight Elite user Oxford U.K. 479 Posts |
Hi Drew,
Thanks for your reply. I seem to recall someone mentioning the Anneman effect on one of the other boards in response to my question. Perhaps it was you? However I’m not sure this is a legitimate forerunner of Uri’s spoon bending, and I’d still love to know Randi’s source! |
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Ian Rowland Special user London 889 Posts |
In my opinion, I think Geller was the first to do what we now refer to as ’spoon-bending’ and, if it were a trick (which of course he denies), he could legitimately claim to have had the requisite genius to invent the greatest psychic-flavoured close-up effect of all time while he was still very young.
True, some writers (far smarter and better-informed than me) suggest that Geller was not the first. The trouble is, in general they either fail to come up with an antecedent cite, or they come up with something which they consider ’the same’ as the Geller spoon-bending effect when the resemblance is open to question.
www.ianrowland.com . Working Magic.
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Steve Knight Elite user Oxford U.K. 479 Posts |
Sadly, I think Ian’s reply hits the nail on the head and is probably as good an answer as I’ll get anywhere, especially as T.A. Waters is no longer with us (I suspect, but don’t know, that Randi was his source), and Randi seems unable to provide a detailed reference. As Esther used to say on "That’s Life", "Unless, of course, you know different."
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Yaniv Deautsch Special user Israel 529 Posts |
Uri Geller? I don’t think so. Did you ask Max Maven about this? I’m sure he will know.
Yaniv Deautsch |
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Steve Knight Elite user Oxford U.K. 479 Posts |
Hi Yaniv,
No, I’ve not troubled Mr. Maven with this one. He’s a busy man, and I hoped that the general magic community could provide an answer. You sound very sceptical about Uri’s claim on this one. Would you care to share what you know? |
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Yaniv Deautsch Special user Israel 529 Posts |
Well, I think that it is possible that The Man Who Sue was the first to bend spoons.
But I guess that he used all his mind power to invent just one thing.vThat's why he had to use other basic stuff like the compass trick, the hot foil trick or Annemann's The Mystery of the Black board. Yaniv Deautsch |
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Steve Knight Elite user Oxford U.K. 479 Posts |
Uri's early repertoire certainly looked a lot like a magic act. Apart from the things you mentioned he was also doing hypnosis, blindfold drives and even apparently the odd card effect.
But apart from spoon-bending (something that magicians have probably got more mileage from than Uri), he also devised the effect and method for "Psychokinetic time"; influenced metal objects, timepieces and electronics both in labs and in people's homes; had taken photo's of himself through sealed lens caps (several times); baffled well-posted magicians such as Roger Crosthwaite with a deck of cards; and had a nice line in drawing duplications. I think that's enough. |
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Andy Leviss Inner circle NYC 1179 Posts |
Let's clarify it a bit. Uri did not devise the method for "Psychokinetic Time". He devised the method for changing the time on a watch used in "Psychokinetic Time". That's only part of the effect, though. Let's give credit where it is due...Banachek took Uri's basic effect and moved it up to an even more miraculous level.
Note: I have PMs turned off; if you want to reach me, please e-mail [email]Andy.MagicCafe@DucksEcho.com[/email]!
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Steve Knight Elite user Oxford U.K. 479 Posts |
Sorry, Andy, but I disagree. Andrija Puharich gives this account in his book "Uri" (p 117):
"Uri asked for my wristwatch, the Universal Geneve Chronometer. The time was 1:32 P.M. He pulled out the stem to reset the watch hands to 12:00 hours. He requested that I say out loud to him three numbers. I said "4, 6, and 9." He then gave me the watch and asked me to place it face down on my left knee and to place my right index finger over it. This I did. He then asked that I pick one of the three numbers that I had selected earlier. I said "9." The traffic light changed, and Uri drove onto the Ayalon Bridge. As we crossed under the power lines on the bridge, Uri said, "Now turn the watch over and see if anything happened." I turned the watch over. It was set exactly at 09:00 hours!" And on page 204: "Uri then asked for Russ Targ's watch. He set the hands to twelve o'clock, and he asked Russ to hold his hand over the watch. He then asked someone to pick a number from 1 to 12. Uri was trying to have the watch hands move to the hour requested. He failed twice in a row to do this." The idea of a named time is there, even if Uri seems to fail more often than not. |
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Andy Leviss Inner circle NYC 1179 Posts |
Steve,
Thanks for the info. I wasn't aware of that :o) --A
Note: I have PMs turned off; if you want to reach me, please e-mail [email]Andy.MagicCafe@DucksEcho.com[/email]!
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Yaniv Deautsch Special user Israel 529 Posts |
Guys, don't forget the Abnormal Lift.
Yaniv Deautsch |
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liormanor Regular user Israel 114 Posts |
I think that Geller invented all that stuff. Don't forget his persona and his PR which are in the highest level. We have to thank him for all the inspiration and all that he did for us.
Many people are making a lot of money because of these effects(even Randy). I don't remember about any magic magazine in Israel. I know that Uri was a close friend of Roman Sharon. Roman was a young singer, and his father was a magician ( one of the 10 that were in Israel at that time) I have never seen someone stronger then Uri in the mentalism field. lior |
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Xiqual Inner circle Upper left quadrant 4935 Posts |
Quote:
On 2002-07-26 05:11, liormanor wrote: Thank you Lior, Uri is a fabulous showman and actor. We could all learn a lot from watching him work. He involves his audiences to the point of frenzy. Just read some transcripts on the web of his performances. When magicians bash Uri, I think it is pathetic. Grow up, don't be jealous of people who are better performers than you. Stop worrying about saving the world.
Still with the Chinese circus
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Paul Inner circle A good lecturer at your service! 4409 Posts |
Berglas DID claim to have bent cutlery before Uri. I recall him saying so in an episode of "The Mind of David Berglas" series some years back. He also claimed he had done it while performing in Israel and suggested that may have been where Uri got his inspiration.
Paul. |
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Steve Knight Elite user Oxford U.K. 479 Posts |
I wonder if David Berglas had made this claim previously, as 1986 seems a little late in the day to reveal something as relevant to the Geller debate as this. Especially given David's early interest in and skepticism of Uri's claims. Does anyone here know?
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liormanor Regular user Israel 114 Posts |
David told me that he did some shows in Israel and bent metal. He said that he thinks that Uri saw him.
I still try to find the food that Randi eats for breakfast. Lior |
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Yaniv Deautsch Special user Israel 529 Posts |
Did any one here ever saw Geller live on stage?
I saw his stage show in 1991. He really is not that good at spoon bending! To say the least. As Ray Hyman has been said, 'The secret of Uri Geller is not how he bends spoons but how he bends minds'. Yaniv Deautsch |
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liormanor Regular user Israel 114 Posts |
So you say that he is not that good in spoon bending. This is very interesting. I don't think that there is something like good or better in spoon bending. There is what kind of PR and amazement you can generate doing it.
I think that he is the best in doing this effect. That's what the public thinks about him, and they are very important if this is the way you make money. If you look at spoon bending as a four-ace trick, then you may be right. There are a lot of magicians that hate David Blaine. His pass is very bad and his patter...well, he is not so funny and clever like Jamey Ian, but all the lay people are talking about him. I have never heard someone say to a lay person: What you saw on TV with Uri bending a spoon, it is nothing...Let me show you how can I bend a spoon much better. (But I saw some magicians do that about DB when a lay person asked them about DB). Uri took the spoon bending and made it what it is. Even Yorini made some money bending spoons, and he learned from Randi. Yuorini acted the same as Geller: I have powers... I spoke with him one year ago. Is URI good in picture duplications?? I have never seen someone use a better way to get the info. He didn't invent it, but who can do it better then him? What about watches? Was it in the Jinx? In Hoffman? Or maybe Berglas again? What about involving everyone at home? With something stronger than elephants in Denmark? The main difference between Uri and most of us is that we are doing shows (well most of us are doing shows, and the rest criticize them). Uri is not doing a show. He just tells about himself and talks about supernatural powers. He can demonstrate from time to time something with his powers. This is not the important thing. People go to see him do it, but they want to know more about his powers, and if they can have powers as well and all the other stuff that normal people care for. And we do a stage show. People will think that we have powers, but most of us don't claim for powers. Sometime we want to show off, like magicians do. We want to fool them to show them that we are more clever than they. We spend time in this forum to learn new lines, new routines and new ways to bend spoons. Do you think that Uri is reading this forum? Maybe he has a fake name? Maybe he is VernonOnCoins? I am sure that he read Glerisem reviled and stuff like that. I admire Uri as a mindreader. I don't like him as a person when he says that he can help ill people.. But this Uri. I wrote to much... Lior |
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