Just wondering as the three videos I have don't really mention doing non-bodyload effects.

There are probably dozens of prop effects that don't use bodyloads. For example: dove pan, mirror box, square circle, top hat, dove from scarf, Dove from newspaper, dove in balloon. The list goes on and on. What videos do you have? Tony Clark has a nice production from kleenex on his vid.

I have Tony Clay unmasks vol. 1 and behind the seams, I also have Andy Amyx 101.

The effect I mentioned with Kleenex I believe is on Unmasked vol 2. The vids you have are great though. Was prop effects what you were looking for?

I was just more or less seeing what else was out there b/c I am still very new to dove magic and I was wondering what other people were doing if they didn't use body loads.

No problem. Most new dove workers seem to go right after the body loads and forget about all the good prop magic there is out there. Combined with a few body loads, prop magic can create a very good act.

That's what I was thinking. That I would do some body loads and some prop effects.

Thanks

James

Canival Ribbons is one but I personally don't use it.

Ben

Dave has given you a number of good references. I also like Balloon to Twin Doves, Doves to Rabbit, and Vanishing Bird Cage. You can look at these and other dove props (mostly used but some new) on the Magic Auction


I also like the Carnival Ribbons. I no longer have doves (at my wife's request) but I still use it to make things appear (e.g., bottle of coke, silks, etc.). I particularly like using the Carnival Ribbons to spring forth a fountain of silks.

Jimmy

While self-contained props are easy, skill magic is much more impressive. Today's audiences are smart. They know when the magician is doing the work, and when the prop is doing the work.
If you don't want to do body steals, consider steals from a table or prop.

Reza

I don't know man, the audience shouldn't really be able to tell between skill magic and prop magic, it should look equally impressive to them no matter where you're stealing the dove from. They only way they'd know if you're pulling from your jacket or from behind some box is if you totally sucked and flashed up the yin-yang. I'm not saying don't give laymen credit, but I've seen magicians get equivelant reactions from both a dove on cane and a self-contained dove pan. Then at the same time I've seen a magician get the biggest reaction out of any production body steal or no body steal from just tossing gloves on a gloves to dove tray. Its all relative to how you present it. If you just walk out on stage and force a smile and show a box empty and then ta'da', they're going to notice something's wrong with you and not how you make something appear. Anybody can just go out and buy some fancy prop to do the trick, but selling the effect through your actions and presentation that makes it magical and sells the effect.

SperriS

Well put Sperris. I think you are right in the fact that it is all about how someone presents himself. I plan on doing both body steals and props but mostly body steals.

Magicreza,

I agree with Dan in that the audience at a good magic show should never know the difference. At magic club meetings that might be different because we are playing with each other. The emphasis is not the same. But as a paid entertainer, our first job to entertain the audience.

A case in point, last night in Birmingham a card worker who has a very good reputation as an inventor, publisher and performer had a need to force two cards during his act. The audience had magicians in it. (In fact the two cards were forced upon magicians.) The performer was one who certainly would have had absolutely no difficulty forcing any card on anyone. But this was a real performance! Guess what he used? He used a two-way forcing deck! The important part was the show!

Dan would tell you (although it is easy enough to discover for yourself) that I originated and wrote Dove Hotline for professional dove workers for many years. Currently, Tony Clark is writting it. (I am trying to get two books finished.) In my forty-three years of magic there are not many dove steals and productions I have not performed. In my show I still do many body load dove steals.

However, I typically end my dove shows with boxes. In the flat, I close with Chalet's Doves to Rabbit and in better facilities, I do the Vanishing Dove Cage with six doves. What dove production do people ask me about most after the show? Dove in Balloon! (The skill level is all at the factory!)

My real point is that in a good show 1.) The audience doesn't know the difference and 2.) The audience doesn't care.

Long before I was old enough to drive, I played guitar on stage in public appearances for Paramount's movie stars and recording artists who actually lacked that skill. Yet, the audiences never knew the difference. The illusion business is hardly restricted to magic acts. The important part was the show.

Our job is not to make it hard to do, but to make it good entertainment.

Thought Question: Given the same outcome to the patient, would you prefer the surgeon who made the operation unnecessarily complicated or the one who took fewer chances? And the emphasis is ... ?

Bob
Magic By Sander

In answer to the original question, Amos Levkovitch does a zig zag dove. Although I don't have it, I am considering it. This is different as it isn't a vanish or production.
I totally agree with Dan and Bob on their points about entertaining the audience. I advise people to listen to these well respected magicians. Their views are worth listening to.
Hope this helps.
Nick

I agree with Bob and Dan on the skill versus no skill. Sell the sizzle not the steak. I remember Martin Nash fooling the heck of guys at FFFF with a gambling routine. Later we learned he had switched in a stack deck that did all the work for him.

Here are a couple of ideas.. I make a dove production cage (like a dove tray but bird is produced inside a spinning chrome bar cage). If you load a bird in the cage, place a dove streamer inside the cage with a second bird, and body load a third bird, you can produce 3 birds with a minimum of effort. First produce the body load using traditional silk steal load. Pick up the cage, remove dove streamer and produce the second bird. I guarentee the audience will think this production is the same as the first. Now spin the cage and produce the third bird. Viola, three birds with minimum effort so you can concentrate on presentation. Audiences will not remember how you produced a bird only that you did.

Other ideas for non body load production...Abbott's Casket of Pandora, Crystal Silk Cylinder,square circle, dove to balloon, dove bag, There is lots of good box magic that will also work.

One of the easiest productions from a prop is the dove pan. Buy some black gun powder, add just a small pinch. Throw in a match and a dove appears from smoke.

I'm letting a trade secret go here, but only half of my birds are body loads. (Actually they are whole birds!) Lucy loads me! Tables load me! Props load me! I rarely play with a full deck, why should I go on stage with a full body load?

You are not that far from Alabama. Come catch the act sometime.

Bob
Magic By Sander