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TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13425 Posts |
Yes, they will be available soon. Kozmo helped me get in touch with Cellini so we will be working together to make them available as soon as we can.
Frank
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
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Werner G. Seitz Inner circle 3131 Posts |
Quote: That's the way to do it..
On 2004-09-10 12:10, Frank Starsini wrote: GREAT... Thx... (Try to keep the favourable price ) My filosofie on bizz is, rather sell 1000 at a price of 200 USD, then 100 at a price of 2000 USD. (that priceexample is just a *figure*, just wanted to express my filosofie on, how one does do successfull bizz..the supermarkeds use that principle....that's the way they sell LOTS at a cheap price..better then few at an expensive price..all this also reflects when buyung material -in larger quantities- aso.. it pays of..)
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....
( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto... ) |
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Kozmo V.I.P. 5473 Posts |
Well I have heard that about magic dvd's.....but we sell art of for $60...why?, because magic is too cheap...i think a mans life work should cost more than $35...dont you?
koz |
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Werner G. Seitz Inner circle 3131 Posts |
Quote:
On 2004-09-10 14:08, tedb wrote: You did get it wrong.. The income from a sale -as I outlined- would be the same or rather larger, when acting like the real moneymakers do..sell more stuff cheaper, then less too expensive..one does get more customers.. My example wasn't quite correct.. I ment, selling 100 pcs. at USD 50, is not as good as selling 10 pieces at USD 500, because what the result is when selling at USD 50 is, that one actually will sell more then 100 pcs. at the price of USD 50, but probably less when the price is USD 500 a piece.. I don't judge/or have no objections re the price of USD 60 for the Cellini DVDs.. I don't judge the worth..what I outlined simply is how one does get MORE money, by having lower prices.. Meaning maybe, just maybe, you could sell 10 fold of DVDs at a lower price..it also, of course, depends on marketing strategy and advertisment..the lower the price the more you sell.. That is NOT my invention..it is common bizz-practice.. I wrote: >I ment, selling 100 pcs. at USD 50, is not as good as selling 10 pieces at USD 500, Sorry, wrong! Please insert *is better*, instead of *is not as good.* A man's lifework is worth more then the lousy USD 60, what I actually was talking about was to get MORE money out of it, not less.
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....
( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto... ) |
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TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13425 Posts |
Just an update:
I sent Jim Cellini my pouch and he made a few suggestions and we discussed some ideas for added features. Those will be incorporated into a final prototype and then we will be able to sell them once it is approved. Jim will be setting the price. Once I know, I'll let you know. They will be available on my website and at his lectures. If you are interested in one please e-mail me or PM me and I'll put you on the list. Frank
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
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Kozmo V.I.P. 5473 Posts |
Werner, I got it right...no attack here....just pointing out that I feel that magic is too cheap...thats why we charge more...in the old days guys would have to hunt down a book and read...a lto more work there...now they plug in a dvd and BOOM...its all laid out for them at the low price of $35...i have noticed that people are starting to charge more for dvd's...thats a GOOD thing...it shouldn't be so easy
koz |
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Werner G. Seitz Inner circle 3131 Posts |
Quote: Ted, I can't and will not argue re your thoughts..
On 2004-09-13 08:08, tedb wrote: Actually I do understand your thoughts behind.. BUT, I let you know my thoughts.. You se, thing is that even a high price doesn't prevent the good stuff! Fewer ppl might buy it..those fewer ppl might be ppl that just have the money and probably not the skill to do the *guarded* stuff.. So, money/high price doesn't *protect* the stuff... My original thoughts where purely businesslike, re how to earn most money out of ones work.. I understand the ethics re *magic* and the stuff released, but se above..maybe all one does get out of it as a result is LESS money and the stuff probably only gets in the hands of ppl who only are interested in secrets, can't handle them aso. I think you get my point.. These are only my thoughts -it is not because *I* am not willing to pay whatever it takes to lay hand on stuff that has my interest - it is simply how my mind works re bizz and how to make it worthwhile..eg GTM ! As mentioned, the magic subject might work different taking ethics into consideration, still think of the rich ones able to affort anything without getting pleasure out of it..they just fullfill their curiousity, whilst the talented ones, not having that much money might be the loosers..they could do the stuff, they are willing to practise, think about it and maybe even come up with alternative handlings.. Anyway, as mentioned, I understand what you mean..and I am NOT saying what I outlined is 100% correct... but IMHO, there must be something to what I mentioned.. Take care..and keep the price..it is affordable to most ppl interested in the finer stuff..
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....
( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto... ) |
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Danny Hustle Inner circle Boston, MA USA 2393 Posts |
Koz,
You hit the nail on the head. I would even go so far as to say it is a shame that some of this information has become so easily accessible. I learned Cellini's thumb tip vanish and color change from reading The Royal Touch. I then paid to see Jim at a lecture and asked him after the lecture for some specific pointers. I then took it to the street and the other buskers would say, "How the hell is he doing that without a thumb tip?" Then one day Sunny Holiday saw me do the trick and asked me, "How do you know Cellini?" When I saw the AOSM two and he did this simple little trick a greedy part of me was saying, "Oh I hope he doesn't give it all away." I really broke my back to learn that. It's all there but at least it costs sixty bucks! It will keep the merely curious away from it. I also think the ready availability of a lot of this stuff makes for very arrogant and disrespectful new comers to magic. I remember being in my favorite magic shop one day and a "kid" (this is anyone under 30 for me at this point) came into the shop and was quite proud of "his" version of a certain card sleight. This kid had been doing magic for about six months and was VERY arrogant. Another guy who was in the shop saw the move and gave the kid a couple of obvious pointers. The kid scoffed, basically told the guy he was an idiot for suggesting anything, bought an Ammar easy to master tape, and left the shop. The three of us standing at the counter began to laugh our butts off including the magician who offered his opinion. The reason it was so funny is the magician who offered his opinion was the guy who invented the move the kid was trying to do. Video really gives these kids the impression that they are "experts" in just a short time. Really, it just gives them a lot of "moves" and very little magic. The great news about the AOSM series is the "kids" who see these tapes will probably say, "Geeze, this is crap! Who cares about a silk vanish and the flip stick!" They have no idea about the REAL magic that is being revealed in these tapes. I think that's good, but because the tapes lack the "Flash" of something named "Easy To Master" only guys like me (and the rest of the guys who post here with any regularity)are going to have an interest. Sixty bucks will hit your target audience (actual street workers and serious street historians) and let you make the money. It also keeps it out of the hands of the kids who should be buying another thirty dollar Ammar tape. I LOVED the kid who put down the magic that can be done anywhere DVD because it didn't have anything "hard" in it. These are the guys who do not understand how HARD it is to vanish a handkerchief with a TT properly. /RANT OFF Best, Dan- "MT is one of the reasons we started this board! I’m so sick of posts being deleted without any reason given, and by unknown people at that." - Steve Brooks Sep 7, 2001 8:38pm ©1999-2014 Daniel Denney all rights reserved. |
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Werner G. Seitz Inner circle 3131 Posts |
Dan, I'm curious..
The TT-handling described in *The Royal touch* actually was shown to me by a friend way back in the 84's (1984's) that is.. I'm talking about the *steal* from the *b''''d* and not as they all do it terribly from the t*p, GAZZO included !! (He's an entertainer..he gets away with it ) As you know, Slydini had it similarily in one of his (I don't want to tip), let's say *r*-routines) The guy showing it to me was at that time visiting Las Vegas a lot of times and a student of Michael Skinner.. Now re my curiousity..do you know who invented that steal, do you say it is original to Cellini (if so I- of course do believe in it) or is there anybody else who can be *blamed* for that wonderfull handling/steal of a TT ?? I really would like to know..but you se, with this kind of moves it is often difficult to trace the originator..
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....
( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto... ) |
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Jim Wilder Special user Birmingham, AL 954 Posts |
Quote:
On 2004-09-13 09:06, Danny Hustle wrote: Well said Danny Hustle! I had a similar conversation last night with a couple of magicians whom I have great respect for. I suppose that I am a kid, I am barely under 30, but I hope that I never lose the want for expanding and learning. |
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Kozmo V.I.P. 5473 Posts |
I think the steal was Slydinis...not sure...it might be jims...
danny, that's the reason we price some of this stuff high,,,,its needs to be...werner, you are right...we likely would make more money if it cost less...BUT with cellinis projects...particullarily the art of series it deserves to cost more.. these little pecker heads like the one danny is talking about know nothing about magic...NOTHING... they judge...I prefer to keep the real stuff from them...and I think we are at least half accomplihing this by selling it for more...i thnk you should have to work harder to get to the level that these dvd's help you get to...the real secrets are on those dvd's and they are tooo blind to see it...and that's a good thing koz |
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Werner G. Seitz Inner circle 3131 Posts |
Quote: Thanx Ted for enlightning me re this..as well as for the rest of what you mentioned in your latest postings..
On 2004-09-13 10:40, tedb wrote: Maybe you can ask Jim occationally re this steal..somehow it sounds logical he adapted it after Slydini did use it in another routine.. I'm really interested in getting to know the originator..that steal is priceless!!! The way I use it is, during the steal (with my right) out of my left , I don't move the right at all it stays stationary -front to the specs during that steal-, but bringing forward the left, whilst turning the body to the left and the right hand is riding along the left jacket/shirt sleeve to pull it back and at the same time the left is brought up to the mouth -after standing right profil to the specs- to blow on the left.. at that same time the right is *leaving* the left elbow whereto it came.. Everything is covered...
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....
( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto... ) |
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Danny Hustle Inner circle Boston, MA USA 2393 Posts |
Werner,
What I am talking about is a series of moves and steals. Not just one. There is A LOT of Slydini in what Jim does, and many of the moves probably have there origins elsewhere. What Jim did was to string several of these moves together in away that makes the entire routine look tipless. Also for the record, it is NOT all included in the book OR the video (Well, it is, but it isn't ALL explained. ). But enough of it is so that if you have both you can really string something together that looks fantastic. As far as crediting goes you would have to ask Jim. I will tell you that Jim has come to a lot of things independently. He was performing what we have come to know as "The Sylvester Pitch" twenty years ago in a ball routine and a gimmickless coins across that is astounding. Also remember that the cups and balls routine that everyone credits to Vernon isn't Vernon's or Malini's for that matter. I think proper credit should always be provided when you are aware of it. But I also believe that if you have independently found a solution to a problem that already exists you are not obligated to search the corners of the earth for that information before you can publish. that is my opinion anyway. Best, Dan- Posted: Sep 13, 2004 11:00am --------------------------------------------- On 2004-09-13 10:50, Werner G. Seitz wrote: Quote:
The way I use it is, during the steal (with my right) out of my left , I don't move the right at all it stays stationary -front to the specs during that steal-, but bringing forward the left, whilst turning the body to the left and the right hand is riding along the left jacket/shirt sleeve to pull it back and at the same time the left is brought up to the mouth -after standing right profil to the specs- to blow on the left.. at that same time the right is *leaving* the left elbow whereto it came.. Ooof... That is REALLY good. Best, Dan- "MT is one of the reasons we started this board! I’m so sick of posts being deleted without any reason given, and by unknown people at that." - Steve Brooks Sep 7, 2001 8:38pm ©1999-2014 Daniel Denney all rights reserved. |
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Werner G. Seitz Inner circle 3131 Posts |
That is really good...
Thanx.. I didn't describe it properly, but I think you got the idea..because the right doesn't of course stay stationary..it is *almost* stationary, as it moves along the left forearm during the turn of the body..but you got it anyway.. As you might expect, after the *blow* the left is *thrown* up a little and opend glanzing up in the air.. actually in another thread I've described more re that routine..as I don't have the TT on the T normally, it is only there for a moment and that moment is described above.. I'll dig the URL up re a more accuarte description re how NOT to have the TT in its normal place and post it here..have a go if you like..I assure you it plays well.. Dan, I found it.. Have a look at http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/searc......=3796794
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....
( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto... ) |
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Kozmo V.I.P. 5473 Posts |
Danny, jim and have had conversations about the Sylvester Pitch...we chuckle...this is what Cellini says about moves, like the pitch..even though I think the move is his..
Cellini "theres nothing new under the sun" all of these guys running around trying to get their name on some move believing that someon before them hasn't used it or come up with the same idea. I just started doing this 2 cup routine...as I have progressed through this thing its starting to look like a lot of other 2 cup routines that are out there...because its the natural process of things...it just happens that way....the more I do it the more I understand why everyone who was worth anything as a magician does it that way...its the natural progression...its what comes after that progression...after you have done that routine 2000 times in front of an audience that makes it different ...that seperates you from everyone else....the little things...how to get that reaction...i have said thiss before, there is no way to get to the end of something with out doing it....over and over and over...and that my friends is rambling koz Posted: Sep 13, 2004 1:11pm --------------------------------------------- The thumb tip steal is Slydinis...FACT... koz |
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TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13425 Posts |
While we're on the subject of pouches, I bought the thumb tip video by Patrick Page several years ago and it was fantastic.
He incorporated the Slydini Steal with a couple of other moves that really blow away the wise guy. (Maybe this is something like what Danny was talking about) I've used this when I thought that a wise guy was in the crowd. I remember one time someone leaned over to me and said "now THAT was good". They expected a big shiny thumb to appear somewhere and it never did. If you're new to TT work, or even if you're not get the Patrick Page video. Frank
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
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Kozmo V.I.P. 5473 Posts |
Frank, call jim
thanks koz |
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TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13425 Posts |
I did. I'm sending him the final prototype this week.
Thanks for the head's up. If all goes well, we should be ready to sell them in a week or so. Frank Posted: Sep 19, 2004 3:27am --------------------------------------------- The final prototype Cellini Pouch has been created and will be shipped to jim a.s.a.p. I'll try to post some pix again in the next day or so. If approved, I'll start a production run of them right away. If you're interested in one let me know by PM or email. Thanks, Frank
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
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Werner G. Seitz Inner circle 3131 Posts |
Frank, I like the Cellini style type of a pouch!
I'm not a busker, I work out of my pockets (and a thin close-up case for the Benson-Bowl, when in the program), but nevertheless I might get tempted to buy one..haven't made up my mind yet...
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....
( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto... ) |
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TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13425 Posts |
I'm pleased to announce that after working with Jim Cellini, we were able to build to his specifications "The Cellini Pouch". Jim told me "They're perfect. Don't change a thing".
So, they are ready. Cellini Pouch Soft leather, lined with satin, inside pockets (on both sides) like my pouch. Jim agreed to do an intro offer thru September. You can purchase them on my website starting now or from Jim at his lectures starting in October or possibly sooner. You can thank Kozmo for helping make these pouches a reality. I hope you like them. Frank
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
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