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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » If right you win, if wrong you lose... » » The Perfect Three Shell Game » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Piglet
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Edmonton, Canada
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This may be a silly question.. is the shell game sleights similar to sponge ball?? I have the sponge ball routine down packed.. but I was just wondering if the shell game will be easy for me to pikc up if I knew the sponge ball?
Daegs
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No.
Riley
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Piglet - give the three shell game a try - it's wonderful!
ImpromptuBoy
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Nicely said Riley!
Whit Haydn
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I just watched the video instructions available on the Penguin website to those who have purchased their "Perfect Shells." Though it is for the most part oversimplified instruction on the basic moves, the thing that got me was that they teach Bob Sheets' acquitment move from his video and upcoming dvd "Absolutely Nuts."

This is really not right. Bob's work is not only published, is newly published, and the dvd isn't even out yet, and Penguin is giving away his move for free in its video. They do credit it, "Bob Sheets taught me this move," but that is not enough in my opinion. They should not teach other people's work without permission.
MinnesotaChef
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Is it just me or does penguin seem to target younger, less knowledgable customers, and those new to magic? Maybe those who think of magic as a cool new "extreme" hobby? These seem like the only groups who would gravitate towards their type of advertising and not think anything of the ethics of their business. Does anyone remember when magic was classy? When ability spoke for itself. Does anyone want to help with a new effect it would be called "The Disappearing Penguin" if we all chip in and work together, I think we could make it happen.
"Great restaurants are, of course, nothing but brothels.There is no point in going into them if one intends to keep one's belt buckled."- Fredric Raphael
chrisrkline
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It is not that the kids that shop at Penguin lack ethics (they might), but that it is impossible to expect anyone new to magic to know instictively that they should worry about knock-offs. They have to be educated. The ethical problems associated with some of these knock-offs are beginning to filter into the Penguin forums, but not very fast. But eventually, people who are serious begin to show up at these forums(I hope)and maybe they will learn something. I know I have. I now refuse to buy anything from Penguin.

BTW, Mr. Haydn, you have been very influential in my decisions. I have just purchaced my second routine from you. I am waiting for Penguin to produce a new instant download called the Chinese Pop Knot rope routine. I figure it is coming.
Chris
MinnesotaChef
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Is this because of the decline of the Magic Shop/ Magic Mentor system? Has the internet eliminated the weeding out of shady beginners not interested in magic as a complete art? Those best left at the SS Adams trick level. How many of us in this thread started out with a great mentor telling us the improtance of the big picture? The stories behind the tricks and the history of it's performance? Without this, is that little voice of ethics silenced? Do the Angel and Devil not appear under these conditions? How many of us don't behaive in improper manners because we've met face to face with the people whose lives are adversly affected be these decisions? Is it easier over the computer to rob some one of their creative work? It seems so.
"Great restaurants are, of course, nothing but brothels.There is no point in going into them if one intends to keep one's belt buckled."- Fredric Raphael
Jim Wilder
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Quote:
On 2004-09-23 08:40, MinnesotaChef wrote:
Is this because of the decline of the Magic Shop/ Magic Mentor system? Has the internet eliminated the weeding out of shady beginners not interested in magic as a complete art?


Great post!

I believe this to be valuable and appropriate insight by modern means. On one hand it is very easy to see how so many can become instantly knowledgeable of existing ideas, regardless of the potential violation of ethics involved. On the other hand, I believe that the human condition is such that "unethical" behavior would exist regardless. The internet just provides a quicker vehicle to it.

However, at least there are forums such as these. Often they contain arguments that enlighten at least a few about this issue. The greatest hope is that those people will find this place and others like it before unknowingly supporting companies who promote questionable products.
Whit Haydn
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I have been participating in a discussion forum on the "Perfect Shells" at the Penguin site. In my postings, I have leveled all the same criticisms that I have posted here against Penguin and Magic Makers.

The responses have been mixed. One poster said that he thinks if "there were no copyright, knowlage would be free." I think that for the most part, the participants are young and very inexperienced, and as a group have no real sense of the issues involved in the dissemination of magic ideas and principles.

I don't know how long my critical posts will be allowed to stay up, but I have to say that at least it does seem fair and sporting of the company to allow me to present my opinion of their behavior.
chrisrkline
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It will be up to the moderators. Unless they decide that you have violated their rules, it should be fine. Maxwell and Acar do not spend that much time on the forums. Now if they hear that you are posting.....who knows?

And yes, the majority of the people who post at Penguin are in their mid teens.
Chris
danielrhall
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"Never try to teach a pig a sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig"

I've been reading that discussion Whit, and my hat's off to you! You're making some very good points and you're staying calm while doing it. One of the "pigs" is getting annoyed, but I get the feeling you don't believe you are wasting your time.

You're a better man than I. Sometimes that forum frustrates the hell out of me.

-Dan
Dave V
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I ventured into the Penguin playground after sampling the shells. I'm just glad I made it back here with my sanity intact. I saw a group of these "penguinites" at LVMI. I'm interested in hearing what their next project will be. I have a pretty good idea I already know just by seeing what they were watching outside the meeting rooms.
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
BobSheets
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I came back from trip and there are an inordinate amount of E mails from a bunch of my friends, some I hadn't heard from in awhile.

I seems that Penguin Magic is selling the three shell game with a free online instructional video. Wow. Interesting idea. Scary.

Included in that FREE instructional video is some of "MY Work" from MY video. This is not so interesting and definately scary!

I called Jay. I asked if he could remove "MY Work" from HIS video. He said he would. I will wait to hear if that, in fact, happens.

I suspect it will be removed when the've so sold all their stock. Please prove me wrong.

I couldn't help noticing that "The Perfect 3 Shell Game" is awfully close to Whit Haydn's title "PERFECT PEAS" followed by handles well in the streets. (HOW WOULD THEY KNOW?) They were supposed to be called the "STREET SHELLS", except that the name was already taken. I can tell you emphatically these were not molded from New England Walnuts.

Do the guys at Penguin think we are all idiots? They put all of the words used by School for Scoundrels in selling their products so they would show up on the search engines. Puleeeeeese.

I love what Marvin Roy at the recent MAGIC LIVE convention said, "we are a family". We should treat each other as such.

If the blatant rip off, copying, getting it made in China, everything for a buck, If I publish or DVD that (wich doesn't belong to me) and it will make me famous, trend doesn't stop you may see the information end of this art will. The Caste system will be re-instated and YOU my friends will NOT be a part of it.

Unfortunately there is a lot of information these, CHOKE THE ART, dealers seem ready to strip mine. They are not standing on the shoulders of their brothers they are standing on the faces and heads of those who have came before them and done the work.

Maybe the magazines will get it and stop carrying the ads for these scorched earth dealers before they start thinking about putting out a magazine. Oh wait, they don't have to, they already publish for FREE on the internet. Where's my head.

Love, your Uncle Bob.
Whit Haydn
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Welcome to the Magic Café, Bob.
Riley
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Yes, welcome. ...and thanks for sharing your work on the 3 shell game. Great tape! Smile

Riley
Michael Bilkis
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I can't agree more with Bob and Whit. I have routines by both of them and truly value the "Lineage" from which my routines have come from. They may rip off the moves but can never duplicate the philosophy and psycology behing them. That information only comes from the best of the best. And IMHO is what makes teachers like Whit Haydin, Bob Sheets and others at the top of a smal list of the teaching pros out there. BTW, Bob, I have your "It's the Rules" video and now always carry a pair of dice. Moreover, Whit, My deck is always prepped for "The Chicago Suprise." I'm even getting better at the classic force because of it.

:wavey: Smile Smile
Whit Haydn
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Thanks, Michael. Glad you like it.
Ronnie Ramin
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Whit,
Any updates on your 3 shell material?

Ronnie
Whit Haydn
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Working on it. May be early next year. The problem is trying to do the dvd and the book at the same time. Don't want the book to be a reference for someone else's dvd like last time with the Three-Card Monte book.

To top the Tetley's segment on TCM dvd, we are shooting a recreation of the actual Soapy Smith shell game scam in a saloon with in full nineteenth century costume, with a large cast, including Jeff Smith playing the part of his infamous great grandfather, Soapy. Should be lots of fun. Saloon piano, bar girls, gold rush characters--the works.

But it is a huge project, and the research is all done. Just a matter of getting the whole thing put together. Join our email list on http://www.schoolforscoundrels.com and you will be among the first to know when it is finished.
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