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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » If right you win, if wrong you lose... » » The Perfect Three Shell Game » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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TheAmbitiousCard
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Maybe if I find a big hat Whit will let me be an extra in the filming. I could start a brawl or play a ditty on the piano. Just don't throw me out the window of the saloon and I'l be happy.
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Andy Charlton
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Palma Nova Mallorca Spain
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I have just sent the following Email To Penguin. I await the answer with interest:-


Hi there.

I am a Magician performing 6 nights a week. Attracted by your prices and service, I have started to purchase from you.

Recently I have started to hear worrying things about you re copying effects etc.

Most recent and most worrying is about your "Perfect Shells."

Firstly I am concerned that your advertising uses so much from Whit Haydn's Street shells. I seems that that can only be to draw in the unwary.

Secondly, and most worrying, is that I am told that your teaching video shows Bob Sheet's Aquitment Move. As Bob is just about to release this on DVD, what the hell are you doing showing it on your site free?

This is made all the more worrying as the shells, and presumably the video, are being made available free. Now many people, who have no more than a passing interest in the shell game, will have access to this devastating move. Let's face it, Most people who get these shells will never perform any routine. A basic tutorial showing the standard Steal and load would have been more than sufficient, with anyone interested enough to take it further having many excellent sources to learn from.

As someone who has spent the money willingly on Bob's Video, and spent a great amount of time perfecting the move I strongly resent this information being given away and I can see no justification in putting out, without permission, information from anyone's published work.

I have seen the advertising and stand unreservedly behind my points on this. I admit that I have not seen the video, and am prepared to be proved wrong on this.

In the absence of a satisfactory answer to the above points, I will not be dealing with your company again.

Yours faithfully

Andy Charlton
"Keep that smile on your face, that excitement in your eyes." - Don Driver

Check out www.andyandjeansbigadventure.com
or
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Whit Haydn
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Thank you, Andy. Nice letter. If lots of people wrote similar letters it might help Penguin change its course.
TheAmbitiousCard
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There are several things that can be done that when all put together could make a difference.

Don't buy products from penguin.
Don't buy products from magicians strongly associated with Pengiun.
Don't buy books/magizines from those that will put in Penguin ads.
Tell our friends to do the same.
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Mauricio Jaramillo
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Whit,

I'm not defending Penguin, but just out of curiousity, did you call up Maxwell Murphy? If you feel very strongly about your argument, bring it up to him directly and perhaps a positive conclusion can come out of this.

Maybe you did call him, I don't know, but I just feel that it's better than complaining about it online.

Respectfully yours,

Mauricio
Jonathan Townsend
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Ossining, NY
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Not so sure that call would be so constructive folks. Let's do this as an imagination exercise:

Hear the sound of a phone ringing...then we hear this

"Hello, why are you selling an item the not only could be confused with mine, but that includes items from others without their permission?"

"Well, its a free market, can I sell you something?"

"NO, just called to complain."

"Okay, have a nice day then."

And that's on a good day.

What specifically do you imagine as a positive conclusion?

<sarcasm>
Perhaps they could put 'this trick was inspired by Whit Haydn' in the instructions somewhere.
</sarcasm>
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Mauricio Jaramillo
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Hey Jonathan,

Don't think I'm trying to support them or I'm attacking Whit and his company at all, I just believe it would be a good idea. If he calls and what you just said actually occurs, then we can take what you said seriously. For now, it's just an assumption.

I say this because I know Maxwell is a friendly guy and is willing to talk and work things out. I really don't believe he would do what you said. If he does, then I'll take back what I said, but for now your post will just remain as a sarcastic comment on an issue that will hopefully be worked out.

"What specifically do you imagine as a positive conclusion?"

That whatever it is that is offending people is removed, or at least an agreement is reached, if there's a true problem at all.

Hope this is all solved soon so both sides are pleased.
Andy Charlton
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Palma Nova Mallorca Spain
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Hi there.

Received the following reply.

Can anyone confirm whether Bob's move is no longer on the instructional Video?

reply:-
Dear Andy,

Thanks for the nice email. Bob's move is only used in the demo video, and is no not being taught in the instructional portion of this product. I'd love to give Bob credit for his move and all, but we're not teaching it, as per his personal request.

We appreciate your concern for magic and for Mr. Sheets. Good luck with your work performing!

Jaysin
Penguin Magic


Cheers

Andy
"Keep that smile on your face, that excitement in your eyes." - Don Driver

Check out www.andyandjeansbigadventure.com
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Dave V
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It was unchanged as of today.
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
TheAmbitiousCard
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Eternal Order
Northern California
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Quote:
On 2004-09-27 18:13, Mauricio Jaramillo wrote:
Hey Jonathan,

Don't think I'm trying to support them or I'm attacking Whit and his company at all, I just believe it would be a good idea. If he calls and what you just said actually occurs, then we can take what you said seriously. For now, it's just an assumption.

I say this because I know Maxwell is a friendly guy and is willing to talk and work things out. I really don't believe he would do what you said. If he does, then I'll take back what I said, but for now your post will just remain as a sarcastic comment on an issue that will hopefully be worked out.

"What specifically do you imagine as a positive conclusion?"

That whatever it is that is offending people is removed, or at least an agreement is reached, if there's a true problem at all.

Hope this is all solved soon so both sides are pleased.


Mauricio ,
All shysters are friendly guys. That's why they do so well. Making promises that don't seem to happen. Pleading ignorant. Smiling. Lots of big pearly white teeth.

I really hope you're right but the bottom line is that product after product after product they keep saying "oops" "oops" "oops". And nothing seems to change. It's the same story time after time after time.

My personal opinion is that they're just trying to get away with it as long as they can.

I won't do business with them. Friendly and helpful doesn't cut it.

Sorry,
Frank
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Dave V
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Las Vegas, NV
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Quote:
On 2004-09-27 20:42, Andy Charlton wrote:
Can anyone confirm whether Bob's move is no longer on the instructional Video?


Still there...
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
Andy Charlton
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Palma Nova Mallorca Spain
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My reply to their reply:-
Hi there.

Thanks for the prompt reply.

On the magic Café, they are still saying that Bob sheet's move is on the video.

I attach a copy of my shell game routine, so that you can see that I am not just trying to get a Free look at you instructional video, and that I do know Bob's move already.

If you could send me a copy of the instructional video, or a link to that part of your site, I can judge for myself.

In the meantime, re "I'd love to give Bob credit for his move and all, but we're not teaching it, as per his personal request." You still can you show the basic Steal/load, and then say, something like, "there are many great resources for taking this routine further, then list them INCLUDING Bob Sheets' "Absolutely Nuts." Problem solved. You have shown the basics, and credited Bob.

Your answer still Doesn't mention the similarities to The School for scoundrels products in your advertising copy, Which I still believe to be a ruse to get inexperienced magicians, who have heard of Whit's excellent products to your site instead of his.

As I said before, In the absence of an acceptable reply I will not be purchasing from you again.

Yours faithfully.

Andy Charlton

Again we'll wait and see.

Andy
"Keep that smile on your face, that excitement in your eyes." - Don Driver

Check out www.andyandjeansbigadventure.com
or
www.andysmagic.com
Verno Inferno
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Chicago
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I am aware of at least one online dealer who has chosen to drop the Magic Makers line from his shop. Because of recent ventures like The Perfect Three Shell Game, he's even chosen to eat the loss of his current stock of Magic Makers products.

Bravo. This commitment to the ethics of the magic community is why he'll continue to get my business
I hope that other online dealers can make similar commitments.
chrisrkline
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Little Rock
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Nice letter. But I have decided that, even with an acceptable response, I will not ever buy from Penguin again.
Chris
Dave V
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Las Vegas, NV
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Why do I get the idea that Penguin really doesn't care about our repeat business? As long as there are those less informed people who don't know Penguin's past history, Penguin will have plenty of "new members" to keep their wallets full for years to come.

It's a shame. They do seem to have good customer service, just bad judgement in choosing suppliers. Smile
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Randy Sager
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In My opinion if you want a set of trly perfect shells. For get any set except for the ones put out by Andrew Pinard.

the S.F.S. shells are really not that great. ( I know I am going to get flack for that) The color is not even close to a real walnut shell. There not as smooth in operation as some are leading everyone to believe.

yes I have the Street Shells. I don't use them for performance tho I never have nor well. I will just keep them for My collection. I bought the La Maggorie shells and fell in love with them. La Maggorie shells look like real walnut shells. Whits do not. yes it is only My opinion but take a look at Pinards site which I think if http://www.threeshellgame.com and you will see the difference in the S.F.S shells and L.M.
Whit Haydn
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Instead, why not look at some real walnut shells, and then compare color, size, and look.
chrisrkline
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Well, I think that Whit's look like real walnuts to me. They look good, in stark contrast to the ones a Penguin, in any case.
Chris
Whit Haydn
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I think the La Magiorre shells are very nice, but they are modeled after a type of walnut shell that is very rarely seen by anyone--Italian walnuts. If you compare our shells to any fresh walnuts found in a grocery store, you will find that they are an excellent match in size, color and texture. We intended them to be that way, they are cast from my own set of real walnut shells--which I puttied and carved to exacting specifications to make them work well on any surface. In this photo you see one of my street shells next to an ordinary untreated half a walnut shell.


Posted: Sep 29, 2004 1:31pm
---------------------------------------
And here again. I challenge you, Randy, to show me a single real walnut that you can find that matches the La Magiorre shells. They exist, but they are extremely rare and hard to find. As I said, I am not criticizing the La Magiorre shells. I like them very much. Just pointing out that the color, size, and design of our shells is based on a more familiar-looking type of walnut. Andrew's comparison on his site is interesting, but a bit biased, I think Smile He doesn't show any real walnuts at all, not even the Italian walnuts he used as a model.

Click here to view attached image.
Dave V
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Okay, I give up. Which one is which?
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
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