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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Shuffled not Stirred » » The Best Stack To Learn (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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FrankBenning
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Haven't been on here for a little while but the stack I now have pretty memorized (gezzzzz for me it only took about 3 years!!!!! Well..I am "slow" at some things and memorizing stuff is the main one!! God bless you guys that "Had it" in a week or so!!!!!!!...is the Aronson (is there two "r's" I can't remember!!) stack!!

Nice to "know" one that has the built in poker stuff...plus other "effects" I do now that I have it (99% anyway!) Smile
Review King
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Quote:
On 2008-03-02 21:23, Billgussen wrote:
Quote:
On 2008-03-01 00:22, Christopher Kavanagh wrote:
Performing with it is a dream. I mean instantly you know the card (or cards) you need for an effect.

You must be very good with math because I never "instantly" knew the card with the system. It always took a bit of mental gymnastics and routining in some time for me to work the formula through to get the next card. Eventually, I gave up on the math and memorized the entire stack.

Don't get me wrong. It's a great stack. And I'm thankful the math exists as a backup for when my memory fails me (I don't perform everyday, so my memory can fail me pretty often). But it takes a certain kind of mind to be able to internalize the math as quickly as you imply. My mind isn't that type. I'm envious.

Bill

I'm horrible at math and dyslexic. That's how easy I found it. Plus Richard gives all sorts of shortcuts so you get the card very fast. The system just made sense.

And you can't forget it. A stack that's memorized, unless you do it on a regular basis, you can forget it. Richard's system stays with you.

I'm sure the stacks people use are wonderful, I just couldn't do them. So I guess I'm posting to folks, like me, that gave up on stacks and felt left out on performing miracles.
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"

..........John Greenleaf Whittier
Cohiba
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Quote:
On 2008-03-05 12:40, todsky wrote:
Of course, with Osterlind's BCS, you can memorize it as well, and then you have a mem/stack as well as a back-up in case memory fails you.


I don't understand this theory. If you need a back-up, then you didn't memorize it!

If you memorize it, and use it, then you have no worries. How many fingers do you have? Did you have to count, or did you have it memorized?
todsky
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Quote:
On 2008-03-05 15:45, Cohiba wrote:
Quote:
On 2008-03-05 12:40, todsky wrote:
Of course, with Osterlind's BCS, you can memorize it as well, and then you have a mem/stack as well as a back-up in case memory fails you.


I don't understand this theory. If you need a back-up, then you didn't memorize it!

If you memorize it, and use it, then you have no worries. How many fingers do you have? Did you have to count, or did you have it memorized?



No, you can still memorize a deck and have a memory lapse on occasion, due to pressure, whiskey, or a beautiful woman. A back-up can give you some added security, just in case.
And comparing the number of fingers on a hand to memorizing 52 cards is just silly...
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Cohiba
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It was a silly example to illustrate a point. A child learning multiplication or division tables has a lot to memorize. When they get them down though, they know the combinations instantly. Maybe that's a better comparison.
If you're relying on a back-up system when doing memorized deck magic, you're not ready to be performing memorized deck magic yet. I would never recommend someone to memorize a stack because it has a 'back-up' system built into it. I would say, MEMORIZE the stack that has the most benefits built into it that fit your performing style.
todsky
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Cohiba, I would agree with you about learning the stack that has the most built-in benefits (or effects). Truth is, I'm memorizing the Aronson stack for just that reason.
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Cain
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Since my memorized stack is five out-faros from New Deck Order (NDO), I finally decided to seek out and purchase Michael Skinner's Classic Sampler, almost entirely to see how he handles the NDO revelation ("Monkey's Paw"). It's not for me, but Skinner details another stack he used to perform "Mental-Selection Speller" followed by "Vernon's Poker Demonstration." I still think this is exactly the right idea: memorize a stack with a blockbuster effect built-in. Martin Nash's "Ovation," Allan Ackerman's "Ackerman's Opener," whatever floats your boat.

I'm afraid the special benefits of Osterlind's BCS escapes me. He has some incredible routines using the cyclical properties of his stack on Mind Mysteries, but those can be done with any memorized stack.

When memorizing a stack a person needs to make a list of what she values. Reasonably easy to get into from NDO? Built-in super closer? Built-in super-closer adaptable to both magic and gambling related-theme? Built-in super-closer that can be performed in the hands? Are the four aces in readily accessible positions? How "random" does the stack appear?

I place a lot of value on some of these (super-closer that can be done in the hands, accessibility of the four aces) and little value in other places (getting into the stack from NDO; something that looks pattern-free to MIT trained cryptographers).

Even still your answer will be a first draft because the only way to truly know what you value is to experiment for real -- hence, Aronson's observation the stack you use is the second one you memorize. Tell people they will probably have to memorize two stacks and they'll throw their arms up in frustration. Analysis paralysis becomes even more entrenched, and hubris takes over: some begin to believe thought experiments can serve as a substitute.
Ellusionst discussing the Arcane Playing cards: "Michaelangelo took four years to create the Sistine Chapel masterpiece... these took five."

Calvin from Calvin and Hobbes: "You know Einstein got bad grades as a kid? Well, mine are even worse!"
Rocketeer
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I've googled "Dave Stuyvesant" with and without the words "easy stack" and just plain "stack" and came up only with Café references.

Can anyone tell me more about this stack?

Thanks,

Rocky (Tom)
I'm selling my hardcover autographed limited edition copy of Jerome Finley's "Thought Veil"

PM me for info.
Lawrence O
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I released a stack system in Secret Sessions
It is easier to learn (8 king type) even though it is aperiodic in the color (Docc Hilford system) and offers inedited possibilities (mirror structure) and, for KISS (keep it simple and stupid) I use the stack with a Boris Wild marked deck.
I really is an absolute killer.

I detest doing "me too" stacks (or any other form): if I did one it's essentially because I didn't want to have to practice for months on the memory, but devote this time to presentation of some of the potential effects.
Magic is the art of proving impossible things in parallel dimensions that can't be reached
leosx1
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It was The Tamariz stack for me, the way the cards are set up make them stay in memory quiet easy especially as I learned them with singing several songs along the cards.
fyi2
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I have been using BCS for over a year and love it. However I now need to move to a full memstack for ACAAN. I really toyed with memorizing BCS because that was the obvious next step but decided to learn Aronson because of the built in effects. I am under the understanding that a MEMDECK has all the same properties as a cylindrical deck a la BCS. Or am I missing something?

Tony
lunatik
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With either a reg or modified Si Stebbens, what can and can't be done compared to other memdecks? ie. knowing 1 card, can you figure out quickly where any other card is (caan)
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Cohiba
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There's a big difference between CAAN and ACAAN.

How would you handle ACAAN with a non-memorized stack (BCS, Si Stebbins, etc.)? One spectator names any card, another names any number between 1 and 52. How easy is it to get there?
BenSimon
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Quote:
On 2010-03-21 21:51, Cohiba wrote:
There's a big difference between CAAN and ACAAN.

How would you handle ACAAN with a non-memorized stack (BCS, Si Stebbins, etc.)? One spectator names any card, another names any number between 1 and 52. How easy is it to get there?


Once you know the chosen card's position (relative to your top card), you subtract/add the chosen number, which gives you the position where to cut/pass. I've done this with Si Stebbins but since it involves some multiplying, and adding/subtracting of multiples of 13, and half of the time subtracting that from 52, I'm now learning a proper memdeck. You don't want your audience to get the impression you're calculatig something, and I don't think it's easy to patter or tell a joke while you're doing mental somersaults. I'm not particulary good at calculating this in the heat of the moment, so the memdeck seems to be the easiest way, since there's no complicated calculations apart from a simple addition, maybe subtraction depending on where card no 1 is. I had the first 15 cards down in an hour, piece of cake.. the next 10 within two more days (spending about an hour each day) I've stopped since then but will get this down very soon.
bwarren3
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I originally looked at Boris Wild's stacked deck combined with his marked card system. I saw Boris do this combo at Hank Lee's Conclave one year and it killed....
But after using it for awhile, I then discovered Richard Osterlind's Breakthrough card system. It is very easy and like Richard says, once you get it, then you've got it. Plus it looks like a normal shuffled deck of cards....
Bill
Waterloophai
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Quote:
On 2010-04-06 23:43, bwarren3 wrote:
I originally looked at Boris Wild's stacked deck combined with his marked card system. I saw Boris do this combo at Hank Lee's Conclave one year and it killed....
But after using it for awhile, I then discovered Richard Osterlind's Breakthrough card system. It is very easy and like Richard says, once you get it, then you've got it. Plus it looks like a normal shuffled deck of cards....
Bill

I don't say that the Boris Wild stack and the Osterlind's BCS are bad stacks, but they are not MD's. It are algorithmic stacks.
However, Osterlind is gone a step further in 2004 when he released his Memorized BCS, which is a true MD.
Kamal
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All of the local magicians in my area learned the Tamariz stack. Makes it fun when we work together - lots of impromptu impossibilities.
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