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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » You are getting sleepy...very sleepy... » » Hypnosis or Magic Trick? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Markymark
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Yep, Keith Barry is bad.I wonder if he ever rehearses anything! He 'performed' the black envelope on T.V with a reflection of the card clearly showing on the glass of the coffee table! You would think someone could advise him...
''In memory of a once fluid man,crammed and distorted by the classical mess'' -Bruce Lee
Sickpuppy
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Hi James

I'm not trying to steal the effect just interested in it's workings. I wanted to know if it was hypnosis based or clever trickery.

Cheers
Ben
DangerMouse
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Just a quick one or maybe two.

1) David_a_whitehead, actually the Derren Brown lecture filmed at International is available from them on DVD.

2) What is this public domain everyone speaks of?? We are not dealing with the same type of copyright here that applies to written work or music/film. With mentalism I can perform lift, reminiscence, osterlinds Penny Bend, and anything else which isn't in print. How can I do this? If I create or learn a method then ahead I go. Making someones arm lift up from the table, I'm afraid, cannot be protected or owned. It will be different as far as having TV rights, but to perform it in the pub on a friday night is not illegal.

Curt.
Cheese is nothing but thick milk.
christopher carter
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Quote:
but to perform it in the pub on a friday night is not illegal.

Curt.

Perhaps the question is not whether it is illegal, but whether it is disrespectful.

--Chris
salsa_dancer
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Curtis,

I feel like I am following you around here. You have your own stalker Smile

I agree in principle to what you are saying about creating your own methods for achieving a similar effect, I do think that it creates a dangerous situation though.

In some cases an effect is developed and presented in a slightly different way, although based on a similar principle. This is the case with many effects already in mentalism and I do not see how the development of existing ideas, seen or known, can be harmful.

However, if an effect is reverse engineered to be presented in the exact same way with the same patter and style of a performer it is difficult to see how that can be beneficial. What is worse is performing it alongside other effects and stylings of the same performer.

I am quite confident you do not fall into the second category though Curtis Smile
DangerMouse
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Respect is a matter of opinion, illegality is not.

It's like if I hear Richard Pryor tell a great joke and then I repeat it in the bar because I found it so funny. I personally would not think I am disrespecting Mr Pryor

Curt
Cheese is nothing but thick milk.
salsa_dancer
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True.

Richard Pryor though?
Stephen Long
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Interestingly, performance material has been defined as real property in courts of law. Therefore to take it without first asking can certainly be considered illegal.
Hello.
christopher carter
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Dangermouse,

Of course you are right that respect is a matter of opinion, as is ultimately any question of ethics. Nonetheless, you can expect that many people will hold some very strong opinions.

I'm pretty sure that it is fruitless to try hash out these ethical issues on a forum like this. My personal preference is to simply avoid those whose ethical positions I disagree with, and hope others will do the same.

All I'm trying to do in this instance is point out that nobody was really arguing the issue on legal terms. (Although apparently now Stephen is.)

Sorry for any misunderstanding.

--Chris
freeflyphil
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phil
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Dangermouse, I would have thought that a distinction should be clear. Telling the joke to someone in the bar should not involve an ethical or legal problem. Telling the same routine in a comedy club and charging for it would surely present both.
If it's the case though that the original version of Pure Effect(not the one I have unfortunately ) did have an explanation of Lift then shouldn't it be considered public domain? Can anyone confirm with any reasonable degree of certainty that Derren is the creator of the effect?
Hypnotic Winter
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Speculation is never good and those who know the effect should be smart enough to keep it to themselves as they would be throwing away a well kept secret not to mention it's worth which must be huge by now.

H.W
When your only reality is an illusion, then illusion is reality.
PaulEverson
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I believe Lift was never published in Pure Effect, however it did appear in some lecture notes along with reminiscence, the notes were published in the form of Pure Effect minus those two routines.
Sickpuppy
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Where can I get these lecture notes from??

Ben
DangerMouse
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A few pointers,

freeflyphil: My point exactly, I am not a professional mentalist so I will not be performing any effects for money or on stage, this means that I'm not offending anyone by doing my small performances in houses and bars.

Hypnotic Winter: Speculation is what mentalism thrives on, in all aspects. Speculation of the audience of how on earth "he stopped my watch". Speculation of a mentalist developing a method for an effect original or not. And obviously the fun of trying to figure out how different effects could be achived.

Curt.
Cheese is nothing but thick milk.
Hypnotic Winter
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DangerMouse, you do have a very good point and are correct,But when it comes to mentalists or magicans I think it's better to figure out how we could do the same effect ourselves insted of worrying about how exactly some one elese did it.

H.W
When your only reality is an illusion, then illusion is reality.
teejay
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Quote:
TJ, he didn't explain the method for Lift on his lecture video. In his original notes for Pure Effect he describes the method using hypnotic induction. There have been threads about doing this routine without hypnosis, however, the method from Pure Effect suggests otherwise.


I gave my memory a kick and as far as I can remember, with your help, is that Lift was in the first edition of Pure Effect but removed from following editions
It was rumoured to be too good to share
IMHO The explanation was a typical DB joke on the magic community and too silly to include in an expensive, 'serious' best selling magic book
If any reader has read the 'explanation'
please share your opinion with me
Cheers
TJ
david_a_whitehead
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It was in the spiral bound edition of notes that later comprised the book Pure Effect minus Lift and Reminiscence. I don't think the explanation was a joke. He removed it because it was still in his active repertoire. I heard somewhere that he also decided to remove it because he got a number of questions from magicians trying out the effect and he realized that he did not want the magic community performing something they did not fully understand.
freeflyphil
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phil
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I saw Db in June and he didn't perform Lift. I wonder if that was due to the method being somewhat "out there". Or does he just vary the set? Did anyone see him perform it on the last tour?
Lord Of The Horses
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Quote:
On 2004-09-20 06:04, Sickpuppy wrote:
The other night I watch a magician put a volunteer into a ‘heightened sense of synchronicity’ he looked very relaxed and had his eyes closed (The volunteer not the magician). From that point every time the magician lifted his arm up the volunteer would raise his arm as well, likewise when the magician lowered his arm so would the volunteer. It seemed to me the volunteer had no way of knowing when the magician raised or lowered his arm.


I don't know if what you saw was LIFT or not but I do know of two Mentalists that both do a similar version with the twist that not only the subject lift or lower their arm when Mentalist does but also turn their head right or left and lift / lower their leg when Mentalist does... TRULY STUNNING TO WATCH!

Paolo Cavalli
Then you'll rise right before my eyes, on wings that fill the sky, like a phoenix rising!
teejay
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Hi David
Do you believe the explanation was a valid one?
Cheers
TJ
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