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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Dvd, Video tape, Audio tape & Compact discs. » » Card cheating dvd (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Jaybs
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I think we have to remember that this member stated that he was a "Beginner." A lot of the material you guys have reccomended are quite advanced which could overwhelm him.
iamslow
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I don't think there's such a thing as beginner level gambling moves...
"Everyone is tough till they get punched in the face" Mike Tyson
Paul H
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Quote:
On 2004-10-22 02:41, iamslow wrote:
I don't think there's such a thing as beginner level gambling moves...


That is true but there is a place for a beginner with motivation to start. This is with the Erdnase, Expert at the Card Table book. The amount of relevent information on cheating methods as well as card magic continues to amaze and inspire me.

Regards,

Paul H
markhammagi
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It may be useful to help this member realize the level of practice required to master some of these advanced card moves.

Martin Nash said that it took 3000 hours of practice for him to master his second deal (although Bill Simon's book - "Effective Card Magic" has a chapter devoted to learning the second deal in significantly less time).

All of the sources referenced will take a beginner a significant amount of time and effort to master.
Andy
Alejandro Peterson
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[quote]On 2004-10-22 13:16, markhammagi wrote:
Martin Nash said that it took 3000 hours of practice for him to master his second deal

I think that the second deal is not easy to master but, 2 hours for 5 years is to exaggerated.
markhammagi
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Aljandro, I would tend to agree with you. My quote about Martin taking 3000 hours was taken from the January 1978 Apocalypse.

I've seen Martin's second deal. Even when the cards are face-up you cannot detect the second deal ... it is that good.
Andy
markhammagi
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Alejandro ... sorry for the typo on my last post. I hate spelling anyone's name incorrectly. Andy
Andy
Alejandro Peterson
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Andy, The best second in my opinion is the push off, I don't know what second use Mr. Nash, maybe he use a harder second, but with regular practice I think 6 months are enought time
markhammagi
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Alejandro, Martin Nash uses a refined form of a strike second - in case you are interested, you can read about some of the details in his deal on pages 188-190 of "Any Second Now" by Stephen Minch (I believe this book is out of print).

Like yourself, I use a push-off second deal, but I use this for card changes, and not for gambling routines that require lots of dealing. This move has worked well for me in the past, but I also use heavy misdirection.

Since I'm not an expert in this, I took at look at some of my books and videos to see if I could gleam any more information on this subject. Roy Walton (in "The Collected Walton, pp. 201-204) feels that the 'strike' technique may be the better version for general conjuring applications. When I looked at Darwin Ortiz's books and videos, it looks like he prefers to use the strike technique for most of his routines, but he does note that "a push-off second deal (can) certainly be as effective (as a strike deal) if well executed" (Darwin Ortiz at the Card Table p.23).

If you are interested in investigating the strike method further, the books I see referenced most often are: Expert Card Technique (pp 17-20), Effective Card Magic (per my earlier post), and Nash's book. You may also want to check out Jack Carpenter's comments in "Modus Operandi" (pp. 134-137), and I would be remiss if I didn't mention Marlo's RTC, and Erdnase's "The Expert at the Card Table" as sources of additional information.

I'm not sure if this helps the overall discussion, but I did have a lot of fun last night, trying to research these details.
Andy
Alejandro Peterson
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Thanks Andy!
Great Info.
Bizarrist
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I always find great deals at

Hank Lee's Magic Factory

If your wanting a magic video I'd recommend getting a DVD rather than VHS. Most DVD's are region free or can be made that way fairly easily with the right software.

Good luck on your buying binge!
The Most Beautiful Experience We Can Have is the Mysterious.
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