Hey guys, I just wanted to comment on Bob Infantino's article in Magic Magazine this month. Bob talks about how he cringes when he hears someone riffle the cards in public or the ordacity of a card magician to do card tricks while waiting to go to a show such as Copperfield or lance Burton. Mr. Infantino equates this to singing while in line to see a singing performance. I think his comments highlight Mr. Infantino's insecurity as a performer rather than the poor behavior of the audience. If we look at this logically, everyone going to a magic show enjoys magic or has an interest in magic. So, they are waiting in line to go into the theatre. Many members in the crowd share a common interest magic. If a card magician shows some tricks to pass the time while waiting to into the theatre, so what? Should magicians talk about politics and sports rather than magic while in line to attend a function? Look at a sporting event, often awaiting to get into the stadium, the fans WILL talk baseball and compare. Little kids have a baseball or football and toss it around. I will add that once inside a performance, there should be no talking coins or cards as in any performance of the arts!
So, Mr. Infantino is highlighting some of his own insecurities perhaps when his own audience is performing prior to his own performance.

I don't agree with your conclusion as it pertains to Infantino, but I think you make a valid point regarding the activities of persons with a common interest and enthusiasm.

I don't agree... I don't think you should perform at anyone elses venue. Stage, resturant, or anything.

Have some respect for the performers, can you not keep cards out of your hands for a night?

This is down to respect for the performer and you should not perform where another magician is booking and being paid to work.


Paula

If your Dad is at work trying to sell a computer to someone are you going to try to tell them DUDE by a dell? It comes down to respect as I agree with everyone else. Its not polite to do that no matter what the situation is. If you respect someone enough to go to there show go see the show don't try to be the show!...BTW did you ever think why that artical made in Magic Mag? I would think because its something that some magicians need to hear(in this case read)....

tpdmagic

The next time I see a long line at the Outback I am going to pull out my grill and start serving some steaks.

-Jered

I don't think it is polite to upstage the performer who you are paying to see. I have seen people do this at other venues too. Do they think they are going to be discovered and be the next big thing? I think not.

But is this really upstaging a performer by interacting with others prior to the performance?
In response to the computer comment, I have gone to computer demonstrations, and yes, while on line to get in, people were talking about various systems and I didn't say to be quiet that the gateway people may feel bad.
Insecurities of the performer should not stifle the aspiring minds that are waiting to go in and see a show.

Interacting is one thing. Being a geek and juggling cards is a completely differnt thing. You denigrate magic by doing that, and make it look like you're some wanna-be no skill hack. Show some respect to yourself and the people around you. They paid to see <insert professional magicians name here>, NOT YOU. They don't want to see you're crappy card tricks (and if you feel the need to show people in line your card tricks then they are crappy and you are a bad performer, look I just cold read you)

You may discuss music in line for a concert, but I seriously doubt you would set up the amp and start jamming. Its sad and pathetic. You don't walk into an art gallery and start painting. Or you don't pull out a Dell and set it up while attending the gateway demonstration.

Discussing magic in the line of a magician is a completely different thing that being a loser and doing card tricks in line. You ruin card tricks for the real magicians who do them professionally and with meaning.

Ivan I think that was a bit harsh. Some people love magic so much that they cant help showing people stuff. The point has been made that it is a matter of respect not to show people in line your magic, but there was no need to get offensive like that.

Performing at another's venue is classless.

It is inappropriate to pull out a trick and start doing it at another performers venue. Whether it be restaurant, concert hall etc. There is no harm in talking magic with others in attendance, but no need to actually pull out physical props and perform.

This bugs me when I see it being done. Bugged me when I was tablehopping, bugged me when I was bartending. It has nothing to do with insecurities of myself as a performer. I just think it is arrogant.

I'll give you one example....a number of years ago, I was standing in the lobby of a theater after a Copperfield performance. Earlier in the show, he had performed Misled on the big screen. After the show, some pimply face teen pulled out his Misled in the middle of the lobby and did it. (and flashed the gimmick behind the bill none the less.) I heard one person say they paid $30 some bucks to see Copperfield, and he could have seen the same thing for free. First of all, I thought the kid was arrogant for doing the same trick Copperfield did. Second, I thought the guy who made the comment was twice as stupid because Copperfield did plenty of other things in the show that this kid could have only dreamed of.

What is the point though behind the theory of it is ok? If you and your friends (who know you do magic) decide to go out to eat and you end up at a restaurant that has a table hopping magician. Do you pull out your cards and show them the same trick while you are there eating? Why not wait until you get home, or show them some other day?

I agree with the previous writter. I wouldn't dare "copy" someone else's trick to the same audience. It does show a lack of respect and a great deal of arrogance.

But by the same token, everyone at a show has an interest in magic when going to see a magic show. Sure I think its ok to do a few tricks if it strikes up a conversation, but I wouldn't perform a whole stand up routine while waiting in line. Just do one or two and it often is enough to get a good conversation going with the other people around you. More ofen than not I find they will often ask "how long have you been doing this?" or "are you a big fan of *****." don't gatecrash someone elses party.

Me thinks that if anyone here has an "insecurity" problem it is not Mr. Infantino. If one is truly secure in themselves and their talents they needn't artifically prop themselves up by siphoning off attention at someone elses venue.

Notable exception: The Magic Castle.

Try going there and *not* feeling the urge to riff something off. Just don't do it in the theaters. Thanks

I do somewhat agree with not pulling out cards and performing for people at another magicians gig.


Although there have been times when I am at another performers gig, and afterwards I am talking with the performer and we are talking about ideas (with cards in hand) and someone asks to see me do something. I always look at the performer and if I get a nodding sense of acceptance I go ahead with a trick, usually only doing one then putting things away.

There was a time I saw Mac King and after the show I went to have him sign one of my cards. As I was walking up towards him (there was a huge rush of people) I took my cards out to take one out for him to sign. Someone in the rush of people after the show saw me with cards and asked to see a trick. Not feeling particularly happy about having to perform after Mac did his show (just didn't feel right). I did one quick trick and put things away until I walked up to Mac.


Chris

Let's break this down a bit...

"Many members in the crowd share a common interest magic. If a card magician shows some tricks to pass the time while waiting to into the theatre, so what? Should magicians talk about politics and sports rather than magic while in line to attend a function?"

There's a big difference between talking about magic and performing magic. Someone performing in the lobby is setting themselves up as an opening act. No matter how good (or more probably bad) their material is, they're performing at someone else's venue without that person's permission.

"Look at a sporting event, often awaiting to get into the stadium, the fans WILL talk baseball and compare."

This is not an issue of fans. The minute you pull out those cards you're a performer. At that point it is a matter of professional courtesy and it IS like someone singing while waiting in the lobby at the opera. You're no longer a fan talking about the show, you're a performer taking advantage of a crowd that someone else has drawn. This is in extremely poor taste to say the least.

"Little kids have a baseball or football and toss it around."

You said it yourself...LITTLE KIDS! NOT grown people who should know better. Little kids also crawl around under the chairs. That doesn't mean it's okay for adults to do it. It just means that the kids don't know better yet. Same in a magic show. If a five year old shows a couple of people a coin slide, it's cute. If an adult (and teenagers are old enough to count as adults in my book) shows them a trick, it's a pathetic wanna-be move.

Professional courtesy is the key phrase here. If you're doing magic, even if you're new to magic you're a performer for that moment. Interaction between performers has its own etiquette.

If you're at a restaurant and a magician comes up to your table and performs a trick you know, do you yell out how it's done? I would imagine probably not, but there are folks who will do that. They're aren't magicians, they're morons who have learned a few tricks and think they're smart because they've heard of a Svengali deck. The actual magicians I know would NEVER yell out a method during someone elses performance. They've realized that just because you know something doesn't mean you have to say it.

Performing at someone elses show is a similar situation. The minute you pull out those cards and begin working the crowd in the lobby uninvited, you've proven yourself to be some guy with cards rather than a peer of the person they've come to see. If you're NOT that person's peer, then you shouldn't even be trying to impress their audience. You don't have permission, you haven't been invited (and a friend saying, "show everybody that trick you always do" is NOT enough of an invitation), and you should keep your cards in your pocket.

*by You, I mean in general, not the person who started this thread.

When someone "can't help showing people stuff," it's not a love of magic, it's lack of discipline -- which every artist and performer needs.

I've walked to the furthest corner when I've spotted someone "doing tricks" in the lobby before a big show. I don't want to be associated with that mentality.

When I was more heavy into restaurants, I never minded someone wanting to show me a trick. Sure, you have to suffer through some crap at times, but I have also met some good magicians who were passing through my area. The hacks could rarely hold a candle to the stuff I was doing anyway, and the other people knew it. No insecurities there.

However... in the times when other magicians started showing their wares at my venue, I saw red. I even once entered my venue to find someone I knew working the tables and hustling tips. He purposely came in an hour ahead of me to do that. Every table this goober had been to was wasted for me, because anything I would have done at those tables was overkill, and I didn't want to be thought of that way.

I detest magical masturbators who don't know when the stage is not theirs.

I can't believe this discussion went on so long. To be honest I can't believe someone was daft enough to even consider that the article was out of line!

Comparing this to throwing a baseball or a football around, or talking about music, is totally off the mark. The only comparison to make would be the rock concert one, getting out instruments and doing covers of the band's material. I don;t think anyone woudl do that would they?

The insecurity comes from the person needing the attention so bad that they feel they have to fire off a few tricks to the surrounding crowd. This is the same mentality as the acne-ridden teenage geek that whips the cards out at any social gathering. It reeks of social ineptness and insecurity!

I propose that in future if waiting in line for Copperfield, or any other perfomer for that matter, and you see someone take out the cards either, knock the cards to the ground and kick them hard as they bend to pick them up; or take the cards and shove them up their arse!

How would you feel if you had a little gig on and David Copperfield went down your line of customers and did stuff for them? I doubt you would be smiling at that point.