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Daren Inner circle 2051 Posts |
I have read this effect and must say this can be used as a closer to a card act, however I was wondering if anyone had an alternative for the second phase of the routine, anyone that has this routine knows what I am talking about.
I was wondering if there was a different method to the force of the card of the different colour, please advise if you can help me. |
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amccrawford New user 67 Posts |
Why are you trying to replace this section? Is it because you're concerned about the technique of the effect.
In Sonata, Tamariz suggests any force can be used, even the cross-cut force, so technique shouldn't be the issue. Also He has structured the force to be after the first set of coincidences, so there is incredibly little attention on this choice of a card (from my experience of performing it). The texture of the effect to me requires that spectator's choice to give them involvement (over and above the shuffles). Finally, you are correct, it is a GREAT closer - and a number of highly respected performers (both pro and non-pro) use it as such. I'm sure you will respect it and avoid performing it until you're entirely comfortable with it. |
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magicjosh2 Regular user Manchester. UK. 134 Posts |
I have just learned this routine last week and I am still going through the practice mode to get it all flowing together naturally. I performed the effect as described in Sonata and made a slight variation to the method of the second coincidence. I feel this is something you can adapt to suit your own style, and play around with various changes, however I think I will continue to use the original method. Whilst on this note does anyone have any idea about other effects like Total Coincidence that could be used as a closer.
Best Wishes,
Mark |
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Pablo Tejero Inner circle Zaragoza, SPAIN 1201 Posts |
I agree this is a little piece of REAL MAGIC. What a great effect from a great magic mind like Juan´s.
About the second phase, for me is ok. I mean, it works perfect and the words and so on are the right for this. You know, "as the first spectator got his card, know the luck is who is going to get the second spectator´s card.". For me it works great. And as Juan said in the book, you could do this as clean as possible. Even if you feel comfortable with the classic force, like me, you don´t need to talk about luck and so on. You just let both spectators choose one card each one (you know, not exactly, one will be forced). But any ideas, suggestions, tips and so on about this wonderful routine you came about will be welcome and appreciated. All the best magic, Pablo Tejero
"The Magic is in the air, you just have to... breathe it!"
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Daren Inner circle 2051 Posts |
In the second phase you can crimp the bottom card then place the 2nd card that needs to be forced into any position you like, once forced just cut the crimp to the bottom again and you are back in the order you need to be.
Any other tips??? |
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magicjosh2 Regular user Manchester. UK. 134 Posts |
Daren,
Nice tip thanks for sharing.
Best Wishes,
Mark |
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federico luduena Loyal user Spain 248 Posts |
Just for research purposes: Scott Guinn posted a very practical one-deck version on the Online Visions website. It's called "Coincidental". You'll find it in the In Your Hands sections. Scott credits Aldo Colombini for the first phase, but I think Paul Curry should receive credit, since the method and effect are the ones of "Power of Thought".
federico |
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magicjosh2 Regular user Manchester. UK. 134 Posts |
Federico,
Thanks I will check out Scot's version over at Online visions. Tamariz seems to be what everyone is talking about at the moment. Now I really need to purchase the new book.
Best Wishes,
Mark |
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Mike Powers Inner circle Midwest 2983 Posts |
Here's the URL for Scott's "Coincidental."
http://www.online-visions.com/effects/0204coincidental.html Mike
Mike Powers
http://www.mallofmagic.com |
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david_a_whitehead Inner circle USA 2122 Posts |
The Tamariz version is cleaner and more streamlined.
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snushy Veteran user 338 Posts |
This effect is, in fact, a tremendous closer. Just ask Steve Cohen who closes his fantastic "Chamber Magic" shows with it.
L. Zaslow
YOU KNOW WHY YOU DON'T SEE? BECAUSE YOU DON'T WATCH! - SLYDINI
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asper Veteran user 364 Posts |
Don't change a thing. Try it out for 10 audiences and you'll realize that it works!
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towledge Veteran user 373 Posts |
Did anyone see Tamariz do Total Coincidence at his NYC lecture last night?
I could swear he threw in a SECOND spectator riffle shuffle on the blue deck at beginning...which threw a curve in for me...knowing the effect. Anyone know if Mnemonica has some additional variation on this routine? Bill |
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Dave1216 Loyal user 286 Posts |
Bill - I was there last night. He did not do a double shuffle. However, he did something else. PM me if you want details.
Dave
My new DVD ("The magic of David Corsaro") is now available from your favorite dealer. Watch the DVD that Daryl, Jon Allen, Shawn Farquhar, Boris Wild, Marc DeSouza, Asi Wind and Paul Green ALL ENDORSE.
Visit www.timetobeawesome.com to watch the new weekly Video Blog for magicians, "Time to be awesome." |
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Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts |
He fried all at the Castle with it...
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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snushy Veteran user 338 Posts |
On page 210 of Mnemonica, Juan makes reference to a switch he described in his Spanish book Magia Potagia. It is included in that book's description of Total Coincidence, but NOT in Sonata. I think it's what he used to fry us all that night.
L. Zaslow
YOU KNOW WHY YOU DON'T SEE? BECAUSE YOU DON'T WATCH! - SLYDINI
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marcjh Regular user Los Angeles 139 Posts |
Greetings to all. I’m new to the Café, but not new to magic. I have resisted joining magic websites due to a variety of reasons, mainly lack of free time. What a great site this is. I have seen some posts about “Total Coincidence (A jewel for you)” by Juan Tamariz on this site and on the Genii Forum and had some thoughts and questions.
First, I must say that Tamariz is one of my favorite magicians and I am constantly inspired by his work, presentation and skill. Quite simply, he is a genius. I have seen two or three performances of this trick by Mr. Tamariz on various video tapes—he slays the audience AND thoroughly entertains. Personally, I have never seen any one perform this trick live. I have heard that R Paul Wilson performed it at the Magic Castle (I am a member—I’ll have to keep my eyes peeled for his next performance) and I have heard that Bob Sheets performed it which must have been terrific. But like I said I have never personally seen anyone perform this trick live. Tamariz recently lectured at the Magic Castle in a rare, mid week lecture; and I believe he performed this effect. Much to my utter dismay, I did not know of this lecture until three days after it was held and missed out on a once in a lifetime opportunity. Darn. I feel I am privileged to own a copy of Sonata which describes “the work” of this trick. Mr. Tamariz describes this effect as virtually self working. I have to disagree. That is almost like saying his memorized stack is self working. While there are no hard, knuckle-busting moves, these can be very difficult effects to present well. I have been toying with “Total Coincidence” for about 6 or 7 years, and I have only performed it a handful of times. I do not feel that I am getting even close to the impact that I should. The reason for this is simple—I need to improve my presentational skills. Tamariz slays audience with this because he is Tamariz. As I improve in my presentation of this effect, I hope that I will be able to create a truly magical experience, like what Mr. Tamariz is able to accomplish. Before we get to the trick itself (what an introduction!!!) I wanted to take a moment to discuss similar effects. I know of two similar effects that use a single deck of cards. The first one is a trick called “Coincidental” by Scott Guinn that I found on the web site Online-Vision.com. The second effect is from Allan Ackerman. I saw Mr. (or is that Dr.?) Ackerman perform his effect at the Magic Live convention in 2004. Aldo Colombini has a great trick called “Coincidence & Luck” which also uses a single deck and starts out with a similar coincidence effect, then has two “wow” kickers. As an added bonus, his trick is super easy to perform. Mr. Colombini also markets “Jumbo Coincidence,” which I have never seen performed and do not own, but seems to be similar in Paul Curry’s effect. With two decks of cards, I know of Paul Curry’s “Power of Concentration.” Of course, John Scarne had the “Triple Prediction,” but that trick has a much different feel. (Yes the cards match from two different decks, but the effect is really different.) I would love to expand this list if anyone knows more similar types of effects. (And I know that they are out there, I vaguely recall at least one in Apocalypse.) But, the main reason that I am writing is that I want to get some feedback from people who perform this effect. I feel that there are some shortcomings in the trick that make me uncomfortable in performance and I wanted to see if anyone else felt the same way. In addition, I have come up with some alternatives to circumvent these problems and would like to hear if anyone else had any solutions. Now on to “Total Coincidence.” I want to keep the descriptions somewhat vague so that we do not tip the work on the effect, but for those who know the routine, we will be able to follow in the discussion. (At least I hope you will be able to follow the discussion.) The first “problem” that I have is in Phase 1 of the trick. (The red and blue packs have been separated and we are using a half pack containing say only the black cards. The spectator has cut his half pack and we mark the position of the cut card. We deal the cards face up until we reach the location of the spectator’s card. The cards match.) Now here is my problem. Fifty percent of the time, two other cards will match before reaching the spectator’s card. I have found this to be weak, and as far as I have played with this trick, this will happen 1 out of 2 times. It has to do with whether the spectator cuts and odd or even number of cards, and there is no way to control this. The cards should be dealt face up, so dealing face down is not a solution. Does anyone else find this to be a problem? If so, what is your solution? The second problem that I have is in Phase 2 of the trick. (The red and blue half packs are shuffled together. Spectator 1 selects a blue card. Spectator 2 selects a red card. The cards match.) According to Sonata, you must know (i.e. count to the) position of the first spectator’s card. Then you must count from the other end of the deck to locate the matching card. I find this really, really hard to do under performance conditions (or even practice conditions), as you do not want to give the impression that you are counting. The first card is hard to count to because ideally we want a card merely selected and it could be either red or blue, so we have to wait until the card is chosen before counting. The second card is difficult because we are counting from the bottom of the deck and we should be merely looking at the deck, not counting with our fingers. What do other people feel and do about this? Then that brings us to Phase 3. As far as I am concerned, Phase 3 is perfect. I can’t think of any way to improve phase 3. But if anybody out there can, please let me know. Whew, what a post!!! I am very interested in hearing your replies and solutions. I have some solutions of my own, which preserves the effect but makes me feel more comfortable in performance. Unfortunately, some of my solutions have drawbacks as well, I’ll post them in near future. I hope to hear some good thoughts on this terrific effect. This is not a knock on Juan Tamariz-- he is a master magician and totally kills with this effect-- I just think maybe we can make it that much better. |
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10cardsdown Special user Out There Somewhere 664 Posts |
Wonderful post, and welcome to the Café'! I too have worked on this routine and share exactly the same thoughts that you do in the specified phases.
As for the matching of a different pair of cards, we'll just have to deal with that happening, it's one of those "possibilities" that can happen with a Stay Stack. As for the spectator selecting a red or blue card and counting as they select it, I too have a problem with that. I guess the only thing one can do is to ask the spectator to name red or blue, then spread the cards and ask them to select which ever color they name. That will make the eye count much easier. I would also suggest hand to hand spreading of the cards for the selection and simply count the red (blue) cards as they go by. I do think it's a little weak for the magi to simply remove a blue (red) card from the opposite end. There is also one other area of the routine that the cards need to be cut to return them to the correct starting order that I'm uncomfortable with. If anyone has any suggestions there, it would be appreciated! Thanks again for your wonderful post! |
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etawil New user New York 64 Posts |
On the phase two issue . . . I have seen Tamariz perform this (in New York last month and also on a video from a few years ago). I do not perform this, so I haven't studied it carefully. But with that caveat, I can tell you what I remember: I am pretty sure he instructed the first spectator to touch one of the red cards as he spread (or blue--in other words, he instructed them in advance which color to choose, so his counting was easy). After they had taken it out, he ribbon spread the deck on the table and started asking the same spec if he was sure he wanted the one he had--"you don't prefer this one, or this one, or maybe this one?" As he said that line, he was pointing to cards towards the bottom of the spread, and essentially was visually locating the corresponding blue card for the other spectator. Once he had sighted it, he gathered up the spread from the L, and formed a break at that card by pressing the L thumb on it. Then he did a dribble force with the second spectator (a little awkward, as the break is so close to the bottom of the deck). He also used a patter theme of "choice and chance"--the first chose a card, the second got one by chance.
Again, I emphasize this is just from memory, and I do not work with this trick a lot, so I may be off. But it does solve the problem of reducing the mental work required. --Ezra. PS. The one or two times I have done this or similar effect, I've dealt with the phase 1 problem simply by saying as I start the dealing that in a shuffled deck, statistically speaking it is relatively unlikely that the cards will match in color and suit. I mention that perhaps you'll get one match, or at most two. If a match comes prematurely, I'll just point it out as a rarity and move on. It's still an effect that a match comes on the spectator's selection. PPS. On the phase 1 thing . . . actually, if a match does come early, you should express surprise and explain why it's unusual along the lines I said in the previous post. That way, you're increasing the unlikelihood of a match happening again, and at such a significant point. |
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Pablo Tejero Inner circle Zaragoza, SPAIN 1201 Posts |
About the first phase, I think that if you "order" the cards right, the only coincidence you will find will be the right one, no others.
All the best magic, Pablo Tejero
"The Magic is in the air, you just have to... breathe it!"
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