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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Deckless! » » Skinner's 3 Card Monte (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Larry Davidson
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Inner circle
Potomac, MD
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Over the years, I've performed a number of versions of 3 card monte and this version garners me the strongest reaction. I've not have one person mention or act as if the cards weren't normal. Here's one suggestion...if you don't want people to think that the cards are special, don't treat them like they're special, for example, by removing them from a wallet.
Werner G. Seitz
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Quote:
On 2004-10-22 16:20, Paul Chosse wrote:
I "Beta'ed" (Check the credits) the Skinner thing...

Yes, I did Paul..so many (good) magicians can't be wrong...

Well TBH, I never did use/practise that version -also I bought it!-as I always was in love with the Gaetan Bloom handling/fake..

The ones demonstrating it to me (Skinners version) didn't do a too good job, I suppose, the only one that got away with it in my (critical) eyes was Bill Malone, and THAT was because of his presentation rather then the *handling*/ covering of the particular spot to be covered.

Now, comparing this *real* close-up thingy with *Chase the Ace* is not entirely fair, as in the latter (which I did and loved to do when being in my early 20th) gave entirely diff. handlings/possibilities to cover the dirty work, f.ex. by use of ones own entire part of the hand below the thumb (don't know what's it called in english).

The handling of that routine was very natural, by f.ex. having all 3 crds slighly fanned in the right hand ,taking the 1st dirty crd (the one on the back of the fan) in the left, the others still sightly fanned in the right and *sliding* the fanned crds in the right diagonally from top left to bottom right of the dirty card as a POINTER, and the instant the bottom left is reaching covering the *****, the crd in the left was turned over showing it's back..

As you now doubt know the handling of the *Chase the Ace* (others might not), this action aloo when reading the word *sliding* may seem unnatural, and the word *sliding* is not exactly the action taking place, but I assure you it IS a very natural handling..

Also later, when revealing the cardchange, there where so good options to cover the dirty *spot*..
As Pete Biro mention, KB looked at it as a close-up trick, that is correct in a sense, the fact is, that it was/is highly visible for a roomfull of ppl, when doing -and it's always done that way- it stand-up and one also has to have a chair or a table to place the cards on, back up..

Doing that routine with normal sized cards on a table and using the thumb..using each and everytime the thumb, might be slightly suspecious, even when the card is snapped face-up..
Anyway...my original judgment most certainly was too *harsh* and doesn't do justice to what an *expert* can get out of it..prob is, the average magician most certainly never will grasb the correct way to handle that gaff Smile -and I include myself into that statement..

What Larry Davidson stated however, is entirely correct..

The real handling starts by removing the 3 aces FROM the deck..and not out of a wallet or envelop..that is the first and basic step to a deceptive performance..
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....

( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might
as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto... Smile )
Dan LeFay
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Holland
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I agree with Pete, Larry and Paul. This has been in my repertoire for years (both the close-up, a jumbo and a giant version). I never had questions on the cards.

To answers Jon's first question: Presentation, character and "a total trust in the gaffs".

Let me tell you guys something that might have me crucified: I prefer this version over the normal 3-card monte. At least when it comes to terms of magic and not gambling.
Auch, I said it...
"Things need not have happened to be true.
Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths,
that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes,
and forgot."
Neil Gaiman
RiffClown
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Yorktown, Virginia (Previously Germany)
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Quote:
On 2004-10-23 07:01, Dan LeFay wrote:
I agree with Pete, Larry and Paul. This has been in my repertoire for years (both the close-up, a jumbo and a giant version). I never had questions on the cards.

To answers Jon's first question: Presentation, character and "a total trust in the gaffs".

Let me tell you guys something that might have me crucified: I prefer this version over the normal 3-card monte. At least when it comes to terms of magic and not gambling.
Auch, I said it...



DITTO!!!
Rob "Riff, the Magical Clown" Eubank aka RiffClown
<BR>http://www.riffclown.com
<BR>Magic is not the method, but the presentation.
Jonathan Townsend
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Eternal Order
Ossining, NY
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I did Hamman's Aces for my younger brother and sister LONG ago, the Sidewalk Shuffle and even the Monte trick.

I watched their eyes when I displayed the cards, and saw the "humor him" look.

People give you that look when they let things slide for the sake of your performance.

People give you a completely different look when they are comfortable with what they see and an almost unmistakable look when surprised by what they see.

A clever idea is not always the best method for a trick.

Paul mentioned above how presentation and persona can manage audience reactions.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Dan LeFay
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Holland
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Since this is one of the few challenge effects that I have in my repertoire it would be the first where spectators would immediately get vocal if they'd suspect anything. I must admit that with the giant size this has happened in the past. Not so with the close-up version.

Jon mentions the Hamman Final Aces routine and the sidewalk shuffle. When considering the effect of these two, compared with the 3CM effect I would say that the "claim" is much higher. Especially with the sidewalk shuffle, the cards transform in the end. Seems rather natural that someone would like to check them.

(Bob Kohler, in his Aces in their Faces video has a very nice approach for the heavily gaffed cards. First he makes it seem like very slick sleight of hand. And only in the second phase he does a no touch, psychological presentation. The chances a spectator would like to "examine" the cards is much smaller this way.)
"Things need not have happened to be true.
Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths,
that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes,
and forgot."
Neil Gaiman
Bob Kohler
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Psychological ploys are a great way to cover using gaffed cards. As Larry and other above mention casual handling and your attitude lay the foundation.

Bob Sheets taught me years ago that the most common error magicians make is their "guilt" complex. You've got to eliminate even thinking that you're guilty.

The best performers are powerful, charming and are in control of the audience the entire show. Of course, it should appear to the audience that there is no control.

Next spring I plan on releasing two DVD's that will cover this. One is a much upgraded handling of Aces In Their Faces that will include a new gaff to the set. The second DVD will contain seven card effects that use control as a major part of the "sell."

The lessons will apply to all card handling but will really help routines that use gaffs such as Skinner's Monte.
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Paul Chosse
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V.I.P.
1955 - 2010
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Hi Bob!

I look forward to your take on subtle card handling as regards gaffs. There is far too little available in any format right now, and, as you know, many excellent effects are ruined by the "guilt" complex magicians display as they handle gaffs. I wonder sometimes if magicians are afraid the gaffs are going to expose themselves, given the care with which they handle them, versus the cavelier attitude they display with normal cards. In fact, I have used this careful handling of gaffs to really sucker folks, magicians included, in more than one trick.

John Luka's "Michigan Monte", based on Louis Falanga's "Virginia City Shuffle", is a case in point. I purposely handle the cards as if they are gaffed, even "guiltily" reversing them and very "carefully" spreading them, as if I'm afraid to expose too much of the card faces. Since the cards are ungaffed, and the trick uses a reverse spread and other subtleties in place of the gaffs, it really is a "sell" to handle them this way, and the audience is shocked at the end, when you toss them the cards!

In another effect, Ron Bauer's version of an Elmer Biddle trick, there is a moment when the spectator is sure that you have two cards held as one. By handling the single as if it IS a double, they are really thrown when they go for the card(s) and find just one.

And then there is the Ascanio spread, which looks like nothing anyone has ever seen before. It can only be for hiding a card! So, I use it to lead the audience to believe that's exactly what I'm doing, when in fact I have nothing to hide at all!

Anyway, you get the idea - handle cards casually when you need to hide something, and guiltily when you don't!

Best, PSC
"You can't steal a gift..." Dizzy Gillespie
Review King
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Eternal Order
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Quote:
On 2004-10-23 14:20, Bob Kohler wrote:
Psychological ploys are a great way to cover using gaffed cards. As Larry and other above mention casual handling and your attitude lay the foundation.

Bob Sheets taught me years ago that the most common error magicians make is their "guilt" complex. You've got to eliminate even thinking that you're guilty.

The best performers are powerful, charming and are in control of the audience the entire show. Of course, it should appear to the audience that there is no control.

Next spring I plan on releasing two DVD's that will cover this. One is a much upgraded handling of Aces In Their Faces that will include a new gaff to the set. The second DVD will contain seven card effects that use control as a major part of the "sell."

The lessons will apply to all card handling but will really help routines that use gaffs such as Skinner's Monte.


I know this is a few years ago and Bob has been verrry busy, but I'd love to see Aces in Their Faces re-released on a DVD. OK, I'd like to see anything by Bob Kohler released!
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"

..........John Greenleaf Whittier
RickVancouver
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Vancouver, BC
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I read somewhere on the Café, about putting all your gaffed cards into a Bicycle card box, along with some regular cards, to create a "deck of packet tricks". At any time through your performance switch in this deck to perform your favorite packet effects.

I always thought this to be a wonderful idea and beats pulling out those small plastic wallets (which I'm still guilty of doing - lol)

Rick
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Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people.
gadfly3d
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Many years ago at a Michigan Magic Day I saw a "performer" in a contest going through a bizarre series of hand washing moves and couldn't figure out what he was trying to do until I figured out he was manipulating his pull to show his hands empty!

Many of the above concerns place one in danger of developing convoluted means to handle what with proper attention to ones performance attitude, as has been suggested also above. Consider if one is hiding an index with ones thumb or finger-if you are thinking about the finger placement or have any anxiety about it at all it will be obvious. But if you can do it without any tension or interest being given it will work.

Gil Scott
Ross W
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UK
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Quote:
On 2007-07-10 10:55, gadfly3d wrote:
Many years ago at a Michigan Magic Day I saw a "performer" in a contest going through a bizarre series of hand washing moves and couldn't figure out what he was trying to do until I figured out he was manipulating his pull to show his hands empty!

Many of the above concerns place one in danger of developing convoluted means to handle what with proper attention to ones performance attitude, as has been suggested also above. Consider if one is hiding an index with ones thumb or finger-if you are thinking about the finger placement or have any anxiety about it at all it will be obvious. But if you can do it without any tension or interest being given it will work.

Gil Scott


I'm not sure this is 100% true. To me, Bill Malone's thumb looks like he's hiding the corner of the card, and this is one of his workers. OK so maybe I'm looking at like a magician but you can add my name to the (short!) list of people who think that this trick fools audiences less than we like to imagine.
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JSBLOOM
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How about this idea.
Have the cards in a wallet, with a full Ace of hearts displayed.
It is taped to the clear plastic.
Remove the cards then perform.
They have now seen a normal ace and will see a normal 2c through out.
Robert M
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In the beginning, I had misgivings about performing this trick. I thought that the method would surely be obvious to anyone. But, a friend convinced me otherwise (thanks, Steve!), and I've been doing it ever since. No one has ever asked to examine the cards.

I use Daryl's gaffed "Ultimate Monte" cards - two red aces and the Ace of the Spades. One of the advantages of this is that the face card - the Ace of Hearts is one way, so you always know how to hold the cards.

Out of all the tricks he could have performed, Michael Ammar chose to perform this on a Learning Channel magic special that aired a few years ago. So, I think that says something about this trick! Smile

Robert
closeupcardician
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Justin Teeman Moore, OK
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Bill Malone's Handling and presentation for Skinner's Monte is great.
"Magic as art cannot live without love. Love of some kind. There are novels without love, other arts without love. But there can be no magic without love." - Rodney Reyes
John McLaughlin
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Gloucester, Massachusetts
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I agree with the majority of opinions here that it's how you sell the effect that counts. I've not been caught or suspected of using gaffed cards because in my mind I'm not, and for some reason it comes across to the spectators that way. It's kinda like shuffling a deck of cards. Many of us can do some of the fancy "finger flicker shuffles, but I prefer to do a basic shuffle, so that I don't arouse suspision as a "card shark".
...NSA John McLaughlin, not CIA John McLaughlin
Steve Haynes
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This is a true classic and a real worker.
magicdeacon
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I've been performing Skinner's 3 Card Monte for over 5 years. It's a great effect! I'm one of those guys that hates to pull out the packet wallet.

For the past several years, I've created my own special packet deck. I know where all of my packet tricks are located. I keep the ungimmicked 2c,Ac, and 3c on top of the deck. On the bottom of the deck is Skinner's 3 card monte.

I strongly suggest that you try it. It's been awesome for me. In that deck alone, I've got 20+ minutes.

Just my thoughts:)
Brent Fisher

"Multi-tasking is only the opportunity to screw-up several things at the same time."
Andy the cardician
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A street named after my dad
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Thanks for the tip . . .
Cards never lie
Rupert Bair
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?
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I might replace skinners with blammo monte...is the routine better than Malones? If anybody has made the switch?

I rarely perform it...guess I've been lucky, never had the whats under your thumb look.

M:C
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