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Protagonist Alfonse
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Any of you has ever done an escape underwater? If so.. what are you locked in, restrained with.. and how long can you hold your breath?
x-treem
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I suggest using an ADA Handcuff and leg iron as opposed to the bridge jumpers. I can hold my breath for 2 min.

I am also a retired lifeguard so the training I have had comes in handy.

X
A direct from text adaptation : The Strange Case Of Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde Starring Mickey Rooney in his final role.
Scott
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Quote:
On 2002-08-21 22:46, x-treem wrote:
I suggest using an ADA Handcuff and leg iron as opposed to the bridge jumpers. I can hold my breath for 2 min.

I am also a retired lifeguard so the training I have had comes in handy.

X


I would be interested to know your reasons for using the ADA cuff rather than bridge jumpers. I haven't used the ADA myself but have done two underwater escapes using bridge jumpers.

I can hold my breath for approx 2 mins also but have been told that when you are on the shore/pool side looking into the water waiting for someone to surface, even 30 seconds seems like a lifetime.

Last time I did one I used two pairs of hand cuffs one rigid one chain and a pair of leg irons. All of these were cheap Korean (I think) cuffs bought from my local Army and Navy stores. I dismantled them myself and made them into bridge jumpers (ratchet rather than teeth). My thinking being I didn't want to lose or water damage a decent pair of expensive cuffs.

A question that I have regarding this type of escape is do you think less is more?? ie if I had added a neck collar more cuffs and chain does it just become too impossible and therefore unbelievable and so treated as a trick???

Scott
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x-treem
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My use of the ADA handcuff could be a long story, but I'll give you the short version (the long one involves two different styles of bridge jumpers, John Novak and Dick Norman, Ian McColl [who gave me the best advice] and phone calls and misinformation... boring!)

So the short story is... I like my items to be completely examineable, without the minor nagging fear of someone stumbling upon the "how to," I usually use the escape in charity work for "Cops for Kids" and D.A.R.E so I have an officer looking them over 90% of the time.

The gimmicking technique you used is the best IMO. You must have better pairs at your Army Navy Store. The ones I got from mine where useless, after disassembling, the lock dog was so poorly cast that I could not do what I needed too.

Scott, my belief in life is less is more... underwater the more you have to contend with the more of a problem could arise. Example: You didn't get enough air in on your last breath, the jump knocked the wind out of you, you landed on a submerged shopping cart [I did] I could go on, my point being you never know when you need to get out ASAP, the less you have the faster you can get out and to the surface in an "emergency."

I currently use a specially chained ADA handcuff (Scott you may benefit from the chaining,even with the cuffs you use PM me for more detail) and an ungimmicked pair of SAF-LOK cuffs, deploying the McColl method of a "no tool, gaffing" way to escape. A pair of leg irons is the only other thing I use.

I've contemplated asking Steve Santini to make a pair of his Mariln Daily bridge jumper cuffs (as illustrated in The Escape Artist Newsletter or TEN) I just can not afford a pair of Marlin's right now.

So IMO 3 (different) cuffs, a pair of leg irons and a neck collar, all attached would look great, beyond that I think it might be a tad excessive, the audience could/would/should be worried with just one pair of cuffs.

Hope this is of use.

X
A direct from text adaptation : The Strange Case Of Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde Starring Mickey Rooney in his final role.
james_magic
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Hello,
I was just curious as to how you stay underwater? I live near the beach and whenever i jump into the water i float up to the surface. I was thinking of doing a water escape but the only way that i could think of was to have weights attached to my leg irons. But from what the last posts have showed, you don't use weights, so how do you stay submerged to prevent from floating to the surface until you are ready to?
Cheers,
James
Scott
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X-treem,

Thanks for the reply I have posted a PM hope to hear from you soon.

James,

Sorry I didn't mention the weights I use.

I usually wear a divers weight belt (I am a quilified sports diver) mine has 36Ib of lead on it and beleive me it drags you to the bottom, but can be released easily with one hand. However if you add chain as X-treem does I think you will find that only a couple of kilo's weight will be enough to keep you under.

Hope this helps.

Scott
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x-treem
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Hi James,

Well it depends, the more muscle mass you have the more you will sink, the more fatty mass, the more you float.

That said I hydoplane!!

When I hit the water, I curl into a ball bringing my hands down to my feet in front of me, with the weight of the cuffs and leg irons now towards the bottom of my body it will take me right down. It may not work for you but give it a whirl.

As well salt water is very boyant, so if you live by the ocean, it will be more difficult, in that case use what Scott offered.

Finally, using my above said method can be dangerous!!! You can become disoriented and mistake the surface for the "floor" and whunk your head, be extremely carefull!!!

I take no resonsibility at all for your death or injury if you use ANYTHING I share, or if you do any type of escape that can be dangerous.

Scott, I'll respond to your PM later tonight, more towards earily Sat. Morning.

X
A direct from text adaptation : The Strange Case Of Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde Starring Mickey Rooney in his final role.
Scott Xavier
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x-treem, whats you average breathe holding ability? Any ways to extend the dive? I have been practising i n the bath tub, not nearly as impressive as a lake , but for now Im at 2 minutes, and comfortable water temps. Would you reccomend using ropes or does the water effect them?
x-treem
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Breath is 2-3 min. Usually 2 is my normal.
The less you exert your body and the less you move, the less oxygen your body will use up.

I was always told 2 things in escapes underwater NO rope, NO canvas. So I've never tried rope. I know Houdini stated using Hemp
rope in his underwater escapes, I believe it is written in Houdini On Magic, if memory serves he also advises against the use of this type of escape.

As far as canvas I've used only a gimmicked SJ and only after a lot of practice in a pool, starting out in shallow water and than progressing deeper and deeper. Even a Gimmicked is difficult to do.

If you practise in your tub use something to weigh yourself down, rahter than hold your hands against the side of the tub (which is what a lot of people do) the exertion of the arms will again zap your oxygen.

Also I remember Steve Santini telling a story about someone who lived down the street from him who did an underwater escape using a fully looped Posey.... he did it once and never again.... Steve's story goes on that it took the guy 2 years to do it and once he did accomplished what he set out to do, why do it again.... This is a paraphrasing of Steve's story and not completely as told by him but it gives us something to think about.

X
A direct from text adaptation : The Strange Case Of Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde Starring Mickey Rooney in his final role.
x-treem
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I forgot to add, if I were in any way ever to do a rope escape underwater the only two that I'd even contemplate using would be Steve Mollett's "Viet Cong Tie" which can be found in an issue of Escapism Mag., from Wheeler/Tanner Escapes, which ran through most of the 1980's. This would work well for a bridge jump if you combined it with a pair of cuffs and a leg iron.

OR

My own "Mercenary 80" from my upcoming manuscript. This would be better for poolside or boat jumps as opposed to bridge.

Again liability is not mine but yours.
A direct from text adaptation : The Strange Case Of Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde Starring Mickey Rooney in his final role.
RC4MAG
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Magician Chris Angel is in Times Square in NY in a tank filled with water. He is remaining there underwater for 24 hours. At 8 am Tuesday morning they will turn off his air supply and he will attempt to escape from the chains and from the locked water torture chamber he is in.
I think ABC tv is covering this live on Good Morning America, at least they are covering it in the NY area.
x-treem
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Criss Angel is an excellent magician!! Thanks for the tip, I no idea he was doing that.... An absolute must see is his Metamorphosis. I also believe he is one of the best Gothic Magicians out there.
A direct from text adaptation : The Strange Case Of Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde Starring Mickey Rooney in his final role.
RC4MAG
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x-treem, I took some digital pics Monday of Chris Angel in the Water tank. If you'd like I could send you them.
Angel, did the escape this morning around 8:30 am EST. When he came out he made the obligatory challenge to other magicians.
Looked great on the TV this morning.
Darmoe
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I'm just going to pipe in here with some food for thought... I'm not certain who is putting it out now days but in my youth I worked for Professional SCUBA Repair in the L.A. area. Pappy used to make a mini-rebreather type unit for stunt people (we made six of these for the Star Trek movie with the whales... Henning supposedly had two inside his Water Cell and the Shark Tank)... anyhow... if you want to add some drama to your underwater work, these little guys are great... give you a good 5-15 minutes of air, conceal easily under clothing, NO BUBBLES when used. Probably retail for around $1,500.00 these days.

Might want to check it out!
"I firmly believe that of all the Arts and Crafts of Mentalism, there is nothing more satisfying than one who is a first-class Reader. It is the ultimate in Mentalism..." - Tony Corinda * 13 Steps To Mentalism
Kevin Ridgeway
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What Darmoe is talking about are two things. The first is called SPARE AIR, it is a small tank about the size of a small water bottle. It is great for underwater escapes for extra air, however it will produce bubbles when you exhale obviously. The second, which will not produce bubbles even when you exhale is called a rebreather. I have used the Draeger made systems, back when they were $50,000 a piece. It uses salt to scrub out the carbon dioxide from the air you exhale. They are primarily used for military operations where bubbles could compromise the mission. They also allow for deeper and longer dives. I am not currently aware of the combination of the two devices. However, I have been out of the "industry" for awhile, so it may exist.
Kevin
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