OK. Thanks very much for the comments everyone. Keep them coming if there are any left to make.

At the minute I'm working really hard on my patter. It's almost like writing a book... you have to go through loads of drafts. I am getting much better though the opening and final load sequences are giving me a bit of trouble. But that will hopefully come with a bit of time.

I'm also looking at my loads. I'm getting better at getting the ball in the cups but getting the ball out of my pocket is giving me trouble (based on PM's various people sent me). I'll work hard at that though I changed the load sequence slightly which might help.

I will really think about the opening sequence and the comments you have made about it.

Thanks again everyone,

Steven.

Bigger pockets help. Alot.

One final remark re this -having trouble in getting the load out of the pocket.

Unless you have a very large pocketopening, and this is IMHO 18cm (7.08 inches) at least, not to speak about the depth, but the 'opening', here is a 'tip', which doesn't come from me, but from Jarle Leirpoll, a very good norwegian performer.

TBH, I lately had a prob too, as I swapped to a 'larger' burger to load under a bowl and I too had to pull myself together to smoothly get my hand out of the pocket with that load.

An earlier load -slighlty- smaller, never gave any prob, but the latest one did.

So, I had to think more about it, instead of getting a larger pocket opening, which currently soley is 17 cm (6.69 inches).

There is a trick to it..

Don't close/clench your hand around the load when grabbing it, as this will make a too large 'fist'.

Instead grab the load in a kind of 'thumb'-palm, all fingers streched and the thumb does hold the load against the fingers, leave the pocket and first THEN close the fingers around the load.
This will enable you to leave the pocket smoothly even when the opening isn't large enough..
Have a go..

PS. There is one more tip, this time one I figured out myslef, after I too got probs with too smal pocketopenings, and that is to PRESS the load held as mentioned above, very firmly to your leg after grabbing it as mentioned above, and THEN leave the pocket with it..it actually makes getting the hand out of the pocket much easier, I tried this out with silly smal pocket I earlier never could load from and it worked..not too good, but it worked.
Pressing the load to your leg and withdrawing the hand therefrom might be an idea to try out too !

Thanks very much Werner. Both them have helped a lot. The final loads are coming out much more smoothly now. I'm really getting to like the look of my cups. They are getting tarnishes and though it isn't perfectly even I think it looks really good. When should I stop them getting tarnished?

Cheers,

Steven.

You have improved a lot with the routine so well done for that. I do want mention one thing and that is your loading technique. What you are doing is almost placing the cup over the load, this leaves the hand that held the load palm up. To be honest it will probably go unoticed but if anyone was to look at your hand by chance, it screams that you have just put something in there.

Check out Roland's video from a few pages back, see how he loaded. That is a natural position and one you should work towards. The act of loading is basically just taking hold of the cup.

To be honest I disagree. I am not a bigheaded person and I am able to accept helpful criticism such as this but I rewatched both vids twice and I honestly think my latest loads are more natural looking (no offence Roland ).

I may be wrong here so I would like another couple of people's opinions aswell.

Just my opinion,

Steven.

EDIT: Not wait sorry I rewatched again and you were right. In mine I take a long time to put the cup in my hand. In Roland's it just looks like he's taking the cup in the other hand (how it's supposed to look). Thanks for pointing it out. Something else for me to work on.

Steven, I was just going to say almost the same thing, and then I saw your edit.

Roland's is faster, but what you're doing is fine. Just smooth it out a bit. You had a slight hesitation as you "placed" the cup into your loading hand. You're not supposed to be "doing anything" so it shouldn't look like you are. This is something that will probably correct itself in practice.

Also, Roland uses his body to block the loads from showing from the front. In your case it looks like your arm is paralyzed the way it hangs at your side. Make it more natural. Bend your elbow a bit, or work out something else that looks more natural to you. Maybe keep your hand in your pocket a brief moment longer so it doesn't have to be "exposed" for so long. Just a natural swing from your pocket to taking the cup without having your arm dangle at your side.

Oh that triggers another tiny tip..

When having a large load, which due to pocketsize might give a bit of difficulty to get out smoothly, apart from what already has been mentioned, there is one more thing partly matching what Dave just wrote..

Keep the hand in the pocket a little longer -as Dave mentioned-, BUT, bring the hand and the load (the way mentioned earlier, flat stretched fingers, thumb holding the load) a bit up, so the hand is ready to leave the pocket smoothly.

Here I mean, don't move 'a' load, especially not the last one, from the entire bottom of your pocket (which might be rather deep) directly 'out', but position your hand further up inside, but almost at the opening of the pocket, so the distance to leave the pocket with the load is very short..

Don't worry, that positioning/moving the hand up inside the pocket should and normally IS covered by an action taking place using the other hand, picking up the wand, or other tricks of the trade to direct their attention away from the hand in the pocket.
Try it out..it works, I use it for the Burgerstuff

And a big body that is...

To me it seems that in my final load I go too slow but the movement of the ball covers that. Maybe if I did it a bit more smoothly it would look better as you said. Also Dave are you saying that I take the cup with my right hand and move it towards the left hand as it exits the pocket?

BTW I just performed the trick for a friend of my parents. It went great. She kind of caught the striking vanish... I'll have to work on that. Then in the routine she came up and felt one of the balls and was surprised they were solid, she thought they were sponge balls. When I produced the tennis ball she burst out laughing, I waited a second, produced the outer two at the same time and she looked stunned and then I spinned the wand and tapped the stack and when I produced the football her eyes went wide. As I said it went GREAT. Then (and I know this may sound bad) I showed her how the trick was performed...


... I told her they were very special cups and did a cups through cup move. She blinked and asked me to do it again so I "tightened" the cups and they didn't pass through so I forced it through with the palm of my hand. She then tried it herself and laughed. (Did I get anyone there? )

Then she inspected the final loads and found they were solid. Then to my amazement she asked me where the little balls were. She had totally forgotten I had put them in my pocket. Maybe what Frank Garcia said was true about them not being able to tell you what happened before the final loads.

Anyway just wanted to tell you my success story.

You didn't need to tell me this tip Werner. I found that out on my own just yesterday. Thanks anyway for posting it.

I'm very comfortable with my routine now. I dumped the reappearance in stacked cups and it turned out really good. I really think each one builds on the one before now.

I changed the final load sequence. It's now put two away and just use one. I put that in my pocket and keep my hand there. I tap the pocket and then the cup lay the wand down, show the ball is back by rolling it and do the load. I repeat this three times... show tennis ball, load football and then produce the rest.

One thing. When she first came to see the routine she came right up to my table. I asked her to step back a bit. Is that OK or should I have done something else? After that she was seated through the routine.

Thanks everyone for all your help. It really helped me turn it into a great routine.

Thanks again,

Steven.

Glad to hear it went well.

It is fine to ask someone to back up, or tell them to move infront. You're acting like the commanding role you should be. Never step back, this means that the audience is in control. If you have THEM step back FOR you, then you are obviously the man in charge.


I have had the same reacation in terms of the final loads relative to the rest of the routine. People sometimes flat out say "do the plum trick again." (plums are my final loads normally) I never get, "do that cups and balls trick."

You have put in a lot of hours on this trick, now just sit back and absorb the good responces!

As long as the explanation was a 'fake'-explanation it was a good thing to do as this -also in this case- gave some interaction, even with a single spec and it was also a *jazz*-thing, playing it by the ear and keeping the interest of the spec.
It's a good thing to be able not just to run like an automat, but to 'play it by the ear' when needed.

But, of course, I hope, you didn't do a 'real' explanation of the sleights aso, that solely would and will lessen the impact of the work you have presented..

Now you have to aim for a larger audience, one spec is fine as a test to start up..do it for a smal party of ppl now...and do it as often as possible, of course preferabæy having diff. audiences, just is what's needed to hone the routine..do it as often as possible, that's the only way to get it smooth and always watch the specs and how they react and where they look, this will give you room for improvment.

As I earlier said, watch the specs as much as they watch you, at least, that's the only way to find out where one can put in 'improvments'and take advantage of their reaction..

I do a certain coinroutine where I've notice they always look away after a starting climax, looking up and laugh, look at each other..
I'm not through yet at that stage, but I have to pause for a second and then do the 'follow-up' sleight a splitsecond before they are looking back at my hands...

Earlier I was annoyed they looked 'away' when I just continued so they missed the intro to the next effect, now I just pause and watch THEM, and continue the moment they start to look back, so it can be timed that they miss nothing, apart from the secret move done a split second before they look back..and they never notice they 'missed' anything..well, they did, they missed 'the work' and that is the way it should be..

Not quite the way I would express this ..don't sit back..

Do it as often as possible and enjoy their reactions, learning from them..but I'm sure that was what you ment

Never stall in complacency, always work, work, work...that the best advice I can give and that's a mistake I made myself..
I didn't follow my own advice and that was wrong and I'm still suffering from not following what I KNOW I always should have done..

Work, work, work the routine in front of ppl, no matter how many, one, 2, 3, 10 or more, just work, this is the way to success and a smooth presentation of your routine..

Ok, sorry, yeah, what Werner said.
Continue trying to make the routine better and better.

Thanks for the comments. It's cool how as you become more and more comfortable with your routine you start to automatically get better at the presentation.

I mean I was practising the very start today and vanished the ball and when I made it appear under the cup I tipped it over with my wand without thinking. It looks so much better that way, compared to what I did previously and the inside of the cup makes a great backdrop for the ball.

One question though. When I tip over all three cups when I make all the ball appear, or when I show the outer two empty and three in the middle, I have to load one of the cups. Should I pick the cup up with left put it in right and set it down and load, should I just put my hand in front of the cups back of hand to the audience and sort of lever it back up that way or should I do something else?

Thanks,

Steven.

Tipping the cups back with the wand is great, because it absolutely proves that you aren't dropping the ball there as you lift the cup. It had to be there before you removed the cup.

If you need to load immediately, you can pick up the cup with the clean hand, then find some reason to need that hand and transfer the cup to the other hand for the load.

Levering it back with the dirty hand works too. It's very like a David Roth (I think) move that I use during my shower of balls phase. I learned that from "The magic of Michael Ammar.

If you're looking for something else to do...I like to roll the cup toward me, so the top of the cup ends up facing the audience and the mouth is facing me. This is a perfect position to be in for loading the cup.

Have fun with it. Change things up so the audience doesn't get bored with repeated moves!

I pratised a bit and I really like levering the cup from the front. I don't know how it looks yet but I have a feeling it might look pretty fair if you do two cups at the same time, like in the shell game when you move two shells forward when you do the move.

Rolling the cups sounds like fun I might have a try. Do you then load the cup with the dirty hand as you reach for the ball on the table and then turn the cup over with the clean hand? Or do you load and turn the cup mouth down with the dirty hand as the other hand takes the ball?

Cheers,

Steven.

When you roll the cup back toward you, it should stop with the mouth facing you. It is a very natural action to pick up that cup and place it mouth down on the table for another phase. In that action you load the ball, assuming you pick up and replace the cup with the dirty hand.

The clean hand can, of course, be picking up the ball or wand or whatever for misdirection if you wish, but the move looks very clean even under scrutiny. The cup covers the ball in the dirty hand and once it is placed down there's nothing to see!

Ah... thanks for clearing that up. I tried it out and it works great. I've put a couple of wand turnovers and a two cup roll into the routine. It really is starting to look good if I say so myself.

I'll post a vid tomorrow some time when I get the camcorder.

BTW are there any other cool cup moves other than the ones taught on Ammars DVDs? I think I heard that Aldo Colombini does some flashy moves with cups though I may be wrong.

Also I'm wondering. Which do you think would be more surprising... four different final loads, or my way with the tennis ball, then two of the same ball shown at the same time and then the football.

There has been a lot of discussion about this around here. My feeling is this:

Four different loads that are completely incongruous with the rest of the routine (fruit) are best. Failing that, I tend to use 3 of the same with the fourth being completely different.

My loads right now are four brightly colored bouncy balls and a koosh* ball.

*koosh balls look like a sea anemone in case you're not familiar with them.

OK you'll probably be all glad to hear that this will most probably be my final video, unless there is something really important I have to work on a lot. I think it's turning into a really great routine and IMHO I think I just need to perform it for real people and refine it. I got a new video camera and a tripod so the quality is a good bit better though I had to lower the quality as the original file was too big.

Click here to see the vid.

Tell me what yous think.

Thanks very much,

Steven.