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Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts |
OOOOOOOOPS... I think I described it wrong, in haste.
OK, this is the move: Cup on table bottom up. Ball on top of cup (bottom) right hand slaps down onto ball flat hand as it comes up it grips ball in classic palm and as it comes up the left hand, also flat, slaps down onto the bottom of the cup, the right hand forms a fist (with ball in it) and fist hits down on the back of the left hand. Lift left hand ball is gone, right hand stays in fist until you go into next phase. Try my Karate acquitment. Ball under cup to your right. Right hand flat palm down strikes the cup ala karate chop (base of little finger hits cup just above center--not to hard--just enough to tip it over to the right. As the cup tips over the right thumb kicks the ball into the cup and you grab the cup with your thumb and first finger by the open ridge lifting it so see ball is gone. Left hand immediately makes a wiping action to where the ball used to rest on the table. That takes the heat off the cup.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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rikbrooks Inner circle Olive Branch, Mississippi 1317 Posts |
You know, I originally thought my routine would be comedic, the heavy southern accent (like I have a choice on that), the classical cowboy garb that's uncommon even in Texas, but up here in Boston they take it seriously!
I get a ton of ooohhs and aaahs, but very little laughter. I can only assume that my speech and mannerisms are so different that they themselves are entertaining to them. Whatever it is I've never had a bad response yet. |
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Burrich Loyal user 214 Posts |
Ah I get it now. Thanks Pete I understand it now. Sounds great I'll have a go at it a bit later. Surprised that they see it as serious Rik. BTW Pete that Karate acquitment saounds great.
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NabsS New user Geneva (Switzerland) 97 Posts |
Nice effect,
But there is one problem with the filming of it though. You should have zoomed out to show the hands AND the cups. By the way, was the fact that the orange takes time to appear intentional or was it stuck? |
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Burrich Loyal user 214 Posts |
Only I will ever know that
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rikbrooks Inner circle Olive Branch, Mississippi 1317 Posts |
I guess we all have to have our secrets. Mine is how I can be so old and still so darned pretty.
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el toro Veteran user Across the atlantic 325 Posts |
I guess that if you can get the orange to stick every time you can place that cup slowly on the table, showing clearly that it is "empty". This may work best for the fourth and final load.
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John Linoren New user Sweden 28 Posts |
It looks like Cups of Bosco type. They're simular to the type sold by Harries magic here in sweden. I don't have a set of my own, but I am told that they should be very good!
Click on the link below, and go to the second page on teh website. Feel free to look around on swedish magic! http://www.harriesmagic.com/engelsk/first.html |
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Dali New user 25 Posts |
I used a clove of garlic the other night as an impromptu final load...was pretty comical having to dig the stupid thing when it failed to dislodge from the cup.
Somehow, it still wound up as a nice effect...was the absolute last thing the spectators were expecting. By the way - nice routine, I like your cups! Cheers, Dali |
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Burrich Loyal user 214 Posts |
BTW John Linoren they ARE Harries Bosco cups. lol. Thanks for all the comments. I'm working on a new routine at the min. I'm thinking of starting with a 2-0-2 sequence and going from there. I've decided to get manmade final loads and then maybe ending with the stuck orange.
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
You see, Steve? I told you the Bosco cups were good ones!
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Dali New user 25 Posts |
I also use 2-0-2 as part of my routine. It's pretty good.
Cheers, Dali |
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Burrich Loyal user 214 Posts |
Yes. Found some great balls for the Bosco Cups... street hockey balls. Only problem is they're hard and make noise going in. Any suggestions other than lining the cups? They are a perfect size.
Nevermind I found some great balls in a 2 euro shop. They're squeeky (is that a word?) toys but I'm hardly going to squeeze them. They are of a soccer ball design in blue, green, yellow + orange. Quite nice and they are the exact same size as the hockey balls. |
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fede08 New user Italy 5 Posts |
Hi, in my opinion you should put some temporal gap between the final loads, as M. Ammar suggest in a video I saw.
I mean: loading a cup and placing it aside, then doing something with the other 2 cups and regular balls, then adding the other loads. Anyway the orange is great, as it contrasts a lot with cups top size. Anyway this is just because I know the loads before thay happen. Spectator's may be amazed the same. Taken singularly, other moves are performed very well. bye!
Federico, Italy
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Manny New user 57 Posts |
You don't need any more secrets.
All you need is practice, practice and more practice. Then write down your patter, refine it then refine it some more. When done test it on family friends etc if it cuts the mustard you are done. Manny P.S. It may be hard and it may be boring but it must be done |
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Tilman Regular user 182 Posts |
Hi Steve,
I liked your routine. Thanks for posting the link. If I may make some suggestions nevertheless: I think your tip-off load would be even better if you changed the way in which you palm the balls. When your hand approaches the cups, both third and fourth finger are bent. When you then execute the load, both fingers straighten out. This makes for a big difference in the shape of your hand just before and just after the load - I think this should be avoided. When you let your hand hang loose, you will notice that the first finger is the one to be the least bent, the second finger a bit more, the third finger a bit more again, and the fourth finger is the one that is bent the most. You should imitate that look in your palming. This becomes easier when you palm the ball with your fourth finger only instead of using both third and fourth finger or the third finger alone. From what it looks like, I guess you use one of the two latter methods. (By the way: David Williamson's pinky palm and tip-off load are excellent, you might want to have a look at that (on his 'Sleights of Dave').). Another point, about your fake load: I like it a lot (much better than the pinch move). You should however avoid to bend your finger gradually more as you approach the cup. You still execute some kind of taking action. This might be due to the angle of your hand in relation to the table-top: When the angle is around 90 degrees, the ball will roll free and you will have to catch it (as you do). If you decrease the angle slightly, the movement of the ball will be blocked and the ball be pressed right into palm position. A last remark, about your final loads: I too find the way in which you bring the cup back to your hip unnatural. Sure, there might be enough misdirection to cover the actual load, but I guess the overall strange shape of your posture will still be registered - if only on a subconscious level. A good strategy here might be not to bring the hand directly from pocket to cup (I have a feeling that this technique is used so often because it is the more viable option when working with a pouch - and that it is then transferred to occasions where you work from jacket or trouser pockets. But it really is no good. It suggests that you are somehow rushed.). Alternatively, you might use the misdirection (provided by the appearance of the ball under the cup) only to bring the hand with final load out of your pocket and then let that hand drop to your side. You could then use the relaxation that occurs when the effect has sunk in to bring your hands together and execute the load. Steve, I hope you don't mind me posting all these suggestions. Don't let them discourage you. You already did a very, very good job. |
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Burrich Loyal user 214 Posts |
Hi I posted a video here in October last year. Since then I have made a better routine. It is longer for one thing. My final loads have definately improved and I am using the Uday aluminium cups (the copper bazar de magia's are on the way). I know now that the Bosco cups are just too big for me to handle comfortably. The quality of the video isn't brilliant but it's good enough.
I'd advise you to watch the vid in Windows Media Player at 200%. Thanks very much in advance for your time to watch this. Please post any tips you have for me after watching it. The link is: http://homepage.eircom.net/~pillaypdsl/C......mall.wmv Here is the link to my old routine if you want to compare: http://homepage.eircom.net/~pillaypdsl/C......alls.wmv |
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Werner G. Seitz Inner circle 3131 Posts |
I'd like to encourage you...keep going and you might get it down.
Please read the following, very few comments, as positive feedback.. First of all, your routine is FAR too long! Cut it down to at least half the time, don't try to incorporate all you know about C&B moves. Second, when you vanish a ball, the fingers of the hand that is supposed to contain the ball shouldn't get pressed on the palm flat, keep the hand as if it would contain a ball, just partly closed and much more 'cupped'... Also try to jiggle the non-existing ball around in your hand 2-3 times by fast shakes. like to adjust its position in the hand. Third, get the cup to the load and not vice versa.. Once again, please remember, the above is ment as positive feedback and not as negative critisisme.. I've seen some of the best C&B workers in the world, incl. f.ex. Micahel Skinner, Michael Ammar, Dai Vernon, and not to forget Joachim Solberg..I know what I suggest..try to think about it and good luck.. It needs much more work to get it perfect, and that is what you want..and the most important thing is to cut down the lenght of the routine.. No routine should be -in time- any longer lasting then Dai Vernons routine..the patter might stretch it (se Gazzo) but the actual handling/moves shouldn't! Good luck..
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....
( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto... ) |
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Burrich Loyal user 214 Posts |
Thanks for your... er... positive feedback Mr. Seitz.
I'll try to cut it down. My first vid was too short and this was too long so I'll make it something in between... maybe take out a sequence here or there which is quite like another sequence. With your second piece of advice... that is how my fingers are postioned normally when I put a ball in my hand and close my fist. I'm just trying to make it look natural. I press my fingertips on the heel of my palm and that is the way my hand looks. Maybe it's the length of my fingers or something. I will work more on my loads. I think that they are much better than they were before but as you said I am doing them the wrong way. However should it not be half and half? ie. should I not bring my hand to the table halfway as I bring the cups to meet it? That's the impression I got from Ammar's teaching on his DVD. I will think about your advice on moving the fake ball around in my hand. That is a good subtelty(sp?) that I saw on the DVD but I thought it only fit in with the Vernon wand spin vanish. I never even thought to use it with other vansihes. Thanks for the feedback, Steven. |
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Werner G. Seitz Inner circle 3131 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-03-13 12:44, magical_steve wrote: It was ment as a positive feedback..it's a long way to the C&Bs..I'm sure you already know that Also any display without one or 2 specs to adress in this kind of routine, never can get a true picture of what's going on..it's a *whole* show, and this does include talking to and with the specs.. I know it's not easily possible to do a capture this way, with sound and with proper frame and zooming, I just mention it to highlight the importance of working 'with' at least a single spec, best with one on your left and one on your right. Quote:
On 2005-03-13 12:44, magical_steve wrote: On the vid it looked like your fingers are 'flat' on the palm, not containing a ball. It really makes all the difference in the world to make a loose fist.. Your fingertips shouldn't actually contact your palm/ball of the thumb, but rather the forefingers first -where it can be bent and the second lead starts-lead contacts the thumb at the middle of its outhermost forrest lead, whilst the other fingers are around half an inch above and alongst the ball of the thumb, that's below the base of the thumb..also the thumb shouldn't be stretched, but slightly bent at the first lead, NEVER stretched out.. Try it out, notice how your hand suddenly looks like it DOES contain 'something'.. Quote:
On 2005-03-13 12:44, magical_steve wrote: I can't recall what Ammar does tell without rewatching his tape, but try another approx. -and yes it 'can' be a midtway meet between ball and cup, still as close as possible to the load leaving the pocket, it's just a turn of the wrist of the loading hand, not a forward move, but none of your approaches re a final load did indicate or rather justify the 'move'. Let me give you an example.. Whilst your left is in the pocket to get the load ready, you lean forward, snap your right fingers over the cup and lift it up with your right. The moment your right lifts up the cup, your left leaves the pocket and rests on your hip (WITH the load hidden). The attention is directed to the ball that appeared under the cup and your right holding the cup guestures with forefinger as a pointer towards the ball -in a very short guesture- on the table. NOW, you move the cup in your right back to the load at your hip, loading the ball, but KEEP the cup in your right, eg. sweep the ball into the cup so the that left little or ringfinger can hold it inside, whilst you slightly turn to the left to adress the spec at your left..just a silly remark like *Did you se where the ball came from?* WHILST adressing him and during that adressing, your now empty left gustures toward him, whilst the right does place the loaded cup on the table. This is described 'simplified', as the next action of course is, whilst the cup is placed away slightly to the right, the left left swings, together with your body to the right and the left reaches for the small ball on the table and lifts it up..again attention is on that action/smal ball. (Bodylanguage is the secret!) There is much more to a such load then I could describe with few words, but it's all in the bodylanguage and the guesturing, that shouldn't be 'broad' but short and 'smal', but the body follows and the attention is directed away from the load.. Fastly another example, where, when lifting the cup with the right, after you snapped your right hands fingers over the cup, the left leaves the pocket (with the load) and instead of resting at your hip as earlier described, moves behind the specs shoulder at your left, or behind a chair to rest on the top, so the load is covered by the specs shoulder or the chair , you could use even a specs arm as a cover, it all depends on if the spec is leaning slightly foward aso. Again also this is covered by a simultanious guesture of the right containing the lifted cup and the forefinger of the right pointing to the ball that appeared under the cup.. One of the mistakes made by a lot of otherwise very good C&B workers is, to shove the load right into the cup directly from the pocket, even after the cup moves to the load, this is not always the right solution, it all depends on what's happening at the table at the same time, and YOU are in charge of it.. A good load is a matter of bodylanguage and misdirection by guestures, also by verbal misdirection.. I can't describe it any better in few words, but I can asure you, what I wrote is NOT desktop theory but stuff that is prooven to work exceptionally well in praxis..no pipedreams.. Once again, I support anybody who loves to do the C&Bs, therefor my comments, this IS just advice born out of praxis, not all my own, but from those who succeded in doing the C&Bs incerdibly well..they all learned it the hard way.. Good luck and keep first of all 'thinking' then practising..
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....
( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto... ) |
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